Author Topic: Tall tales or truth?  (Read 1791 times)

Offline gaffy

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Re: Tall tales or truth?
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 02:32 BST (UK) »
My family lore suggested extensive land and property owned by an ancestor (who had emigrated to North America) which went astray after his death because of some shady behaviour regarding the will, the outcome being that my family received nothing. Over years of trying (unsuccessfully) to bottom this out and interacting with other folk researching their family tree, it struck me how often a similar story of misappropriated wealth crops up in family lore.


Offline iluleah

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Re: Tall tales or truth?
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 10:01 BST (UK) »
My family lore suggested extensive land and property owned by an ancestor (who had emigrated to North America) which went astray after his death because of some shady behaviour regarding the will, the outcome being that my family received nothing. Over years of trying (unsuccessfully) to bottom this out and interacting with other folk researching their family tree, it struck me how often a similar story of misappropriated wealth crops up in family lore.

Yes I agree this story is a 'normal' with lots of people.... some years ago I connected with someone researching the same family as I , who said their ancestor was cheated out of all his inheritance by his brothers which ended with him migrating penniless while his brothers took everything..... the truth was ( after I researched) the 3 brothers inherited equally and ran the business together for years, their ancestor wanted to migrate and sold his third to the  other two brothers who took out loans to buy him out...off he went.... one of the remaining brothers had no children so Willed his half to the other brothers son and it passed down that one line of the family and still owned/run  today, so all legal, honest business transactions and all above board
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline Mvann

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Re: Tall tales or truth?
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 10:43 BST (UK) »
Annie65115

Your upton tale has just reminded me of a search I had for what I originally thought was a Mary Ann upton married to a james hartshorn. It turns out I have 2 Mary Ann uptons, both born about 1826, one married to a james hartshorn and the other to a james glover hartshorn. Took a bit of time to work those 2 out


Jon


Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Tall tales or truth?
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 13:10 BST (UK) »
Annie65115

Your upton tale has just reminded me of a search I had for what I originally thought was a Mary Ann upton married to a james hartshorn. It turns out I have 2 Mary Ann uptons, both born about 1826, one married to a james hartshorn and the other to a james glover hartshorn. Took a bit of time to work those 2 out


Jon

I tell you, they did it to annoy and mislead   ;) ;) ;)
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Belgium/East London.
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline andrewalston

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Re: Tall tales or truth?
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 04 August 20 14:01 BST (UK) »
My mum's grandmother was a MARSH was told in her youth that she was a direct descendant of George Marsh, who was burned at the stake under Bloody Mary and became St. George the Martyr. Each generation was supposed to contain a George in his honour.

It was mum who first got me to look into the story, and thus got me hooked on genealogy

Although the parish is correct, records to connect the family are thin on the ground, and the surname is pretty common.

So far I have only found two George MARSHes.

One of her grandfathers claimed to be the "seventh son of a seventh son". He turned out to have been the first son, but the warts still succumbed to his charming.
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details.

Offline iluleah

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Re: Tall tales or truth?
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 04 August 20 14:50 BST (UK) »
It is stranger 'andrewalston' that many 'family stories' are around the same things. Your story reminded me of a similar story in my family although mine is not detailed like yours nor goes back very far.

Some male in the family each generation is named " after a 'family given name' used for many centuries" I was told.... funny thing was I saw this name on a gravestone in the village and 'no one' knew who it was ( I knew even as a child they were all lying) Turned out it was my great grandfather ( even my grandfather who was his son said he didn't know) Funny thing is my great grandfather is not buried there but in an unmarked grave in the next village 3 miles away.... the gravestone I found out decades later was  done to 'keep up appearances'
Researching I know each generation has named one son this given name and I certainly would have used it had it 'fit' with the surname ( but they were too similar and would have sounded very strange)  and it was the 'real surname' of my great grandfathers, father, who was his mothers brother in law, not the man she married, so a shameful 'event' at the time, 150 years ago when he was born. My great grandfather 'assumed' the surname as his given name when he was a teenager and also 'assumed' his mothers maiden surname, so he found out and also cut himself off from his mothers husband... he was not even registered/baptised with the names he used nor died/buried with his 'real' names.
Yet in the family the 'story' continues of this 'centuries old name' when it is given to a new born, it seems they all prefer to repeat the tall tale regardless of proof
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline robbo43

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Re: Tall tales or truth?
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 05 August 20 22:27 BST (UK) »
Most of the family tales from my mother's side of the family seem to be based on truth, if not entirely acurate.
My maternal grandmother said she had a brother who died of typhoid before she was born - true. She said she had a brother who drowned before she was born - not true but she had two uncles who drowned as schoolboys when they went skating on Saham Toney Mere and the ice gave way. Someone lived in a flat at a mental hospital - pretty much true, one of her cousins married the chief male nurse at St Audrey's Mental Hospital, Melton, Suffolk, and they lived in the East Lodge. There was an architect in the family - well one of her uncles was a surveyor who advertised himself as an architect for a while. The poet in the family - not sure, family papers contain a number of sheets of paper with poems written on them, but who wrote them? She also wrote a list of places where family members had lived and all have proved correct.
From my father's side the family opals which were stolen existed, they were a wedding present to a great grandmother from her cousin who was a jeweller and opal trader in Australia and vanished when a great aunt died and two uncles helped themselves to some of her effects before the executors could deal with the property. Now if only we could find the truth about the Russian, possibly a painter, in the ancestry of another great grandmother on my father's side. Every branch of the family traced so far has a variation of the story.
FLOOD - Exeter, Middlesex.  DAVEY - Norfolk, Herts, West Ham.  MILLS - Hampshire.  GARLAND - Sussex.  BRIGHT - Hampshire, GULLIVER - Hampshire, Sussex, London.  NOCKELS - Norfolk.  POMEROY - Exeter.  RANDALL - Sussex, Surrey.  REYNOLDS - Cambridgeshire.  BOWYER - Cambridgeshire & Suffolk.  STUPPELL - Kent.  MISSEN - Cambridgeshire.  TAYLOR - Cambridgeshire.  TOWNSEND - London.  CURTIN - London, GIBBONS - Suffolk, BROWN - Suffolk, SWALE(S) - Yorkshire, GAIN - Sussex

Offline coombs

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Re: Tall tales or truth?
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 06 August 20 15:30 BST (UK) »
It is true though that most of us descend from landed gentry and royalty. When people say that the often bog standard cliche reply is "Yes as I am sure they fathered many illegitimate children".

True but I am not talking about philandering but people who have managed to find (eg, Danny Dyer) royal ancestors through paper trails and the fact that over the years the fortune died out due to many children, and people who did not do as well with their inheritance. Also only the eldest male inheriting the titles etc. Ancestors getting wealthier the further back you go, leaving good paper trails and finding nobility.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline pharmaT

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Re: Tall tales or truth?
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 06 August 20 21:22 BST (UK) »
It is true though that most of us descend from landed gentry and royalty. When people say that the often bog standard cliche reply is "Yes as I am sure they fathered many illegitimate children".

True but I am not talking about philandering but people who have managed to find (eg, Danny Dyer) royal ancestors through paper trails and the fact that over the years the fortune died out due to many children, and people who did not do as well with their inheritance. Also only the eldest male inheriting the titles etc. Ancestors getting wealthier the further back you go, leaving good paper trails and finding nobility.

Yes odds are that most of us are descended from some sort of landed gentry.  It's just that so many of us would not have a complete paper trail to prove it.  If you're descended from the youngest son of the youngest son of the youngest son wouldn't take that many generations to go down to middle class or lower.
Campbell, Dunn, Dickson, Fell, Forest, Norie, Pratt, Somerville, Thompson, Tyler among others