Author Topic: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards  (Read 606 times)

Offline Fluffypants

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Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« on: Saturday 25 July 20 23:12 BST (UK) »
It it possible to reach the rank of sergeant within a period of two years?

I'm trying to locate a relative who is described as a Sergeant Grenadier Guard on an 1868 birth certificate for his child.  On his marriage record in 1866, he is described as a Labourer. 

His wife is a widow by 1878 when she remarries.  His name is George BROWN and I haven't been able to find any record for him in terms of birth, death or military involvement.  The only other suggestion that he was a member or the Grenadier Guards is that his daughter was enrolled in the Guards Industrial School plus the marriage records for his three children describe him as a deceased soldier.  It is the short duration of two years from enlistment to sergeant that has me a little concerned that marriage records may not be correct.

Thanks for any help that may clarify this.
Bailey, Exon, Coles (Somerset), Clarke, Piper (London) Keith (Ayrshire and Glenarm), McLeod and Matheson (Isle of Skye)

Offline Rena

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 26 July 20 00:19 BST (UK) »
In peacetime forces personnel have to wait until people leave the forces before they are promoted and given stripes.  During a time of war being fought and men killed, promotion can be quite quick.

If he was injured before dying, then he might have been treated in the historic Chelsea Hospital.  https://www.chelsea-pensioners.co.uk/tracing-ancestors

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 26 July 20 10:14 BST (UK) »
I have seen cases of serving soldiers putting their civilian occupations on the marriage register.

Have you found the family in the 1871 census?
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Fluffypants

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 26 July 20 11:20 BST (UK) »
I can't find any military record for George Brown as I don't have any birth date, location or battalion name to pin him down to.  There isn't any census record so far and the marriage records are a bit of a problem as well. 

He married a Mary Ann RABBIT but there are two marriages with couples of the same name and parent's names on the marriage.  One was in 1866 prior to the birth of a son in 1868 where he is recorded as a labourer.  Then the birth certificate for his son in 1868 states his occupation as a sergeant in the Grenadier Guards. 

Following that, there is a marriage in 1871 and another 2 children for which I'm waiting on their birth certificates.  The marriage in 1871 states that they weren't previously married and George is recorded as a sergeant in the Grenadier Guards.  The first marriage record would suggest that this birth year was around 1844.

He is proving to be a bit of a headache.
Bailey, Exon, Coles (Somerset), Clarke, Piper (London) Keith (Ayrshire and Glenarm), McLeod and Matheson (Isle of Skye)

Offline Jebber

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 26 July 20 12:17 BST (UK) »
Something to consider. It's possible the first marriage was without consent of the army, therefore his wife and any children would not be taken on strength. It's not uncommon to find a second marriage after the soldier obtained consent.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 26 July 20 12:20 BST (UK) »
The only George Brown, Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards in the 1871 British Army "Worldwide  Index" has the number 1536. I can't find any other army record for him.

However this 1871 census entry seems likely:

St James' Park, Buckingham Palace guardroom:

George Brown, unm, 26, Sergeant 3rd Battalion Grenadier Guards, born Notts, Kirkby in Ashfield
(Piece 357 folio 3 page 1)
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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 26 July 20 12:27 BST (UK) »
Was there a daughter Lily/Lilly born in March 1871?
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 26 July 20 12:41 BST (UK) »
This does look like the right family in 1871:

8 Park Road Mews, Kilburn/Willesden:

Fredrick Britton   26 Cab Proprietor, born Islington         
Eliza Britton wife 27 Bedfordshire            
William Britton son 5 Marylebone             
Fredrick  Britton   son 3 Marylebone            
Stephen Britton   son 1 Willesden            
Mary Ann Brown sister 24   Bedfordshire            
George Brown son 3 Bedfordshire            
Lilly Brown daur 3 weeks Willesden


Frederick Britton married Eliza Rabbitt in 1864
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Rena

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 26 July 20 20:12 BST (UK) »
Something to consider. It's possible the first marriage was without consent of the army, therefore his wife and any children would not be taken on strength. It's not uncommon to find a second marriage after the soldier obtained consent.

I'd forgotten about that - my husband was serving in the Forces and had to obtain consent before we married in 1964.  This was definitely a long standing custom, as I have a Yorkshire born Dragoon who lived in the 1700s and he had to have permission before he married a girl in Huntingdonshire
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke