Author Topic: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards  (Read 586 times)

Offline Fluffypants

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 04:18 BST (UK) »
Not sure if you have seen these records..........

Death Notice

Arthur George Brown, widower occ Painter born Bedfordshire
died 12th Oct 1939 in South Africa  age 71 years 8 months
Father George Brown, deceased mother Mary Ann, deceased
Spouse Elizabeth Brown (born Jackson) died February 1929
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPTV-CSF8
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPCP-T986

1929 Elizabeth https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPCG-CZ95
Husband A G Brown present at death
doesn't look as if Arthur & Elizabeth had any children but Elizabeth had 2 daughters
Martha Amelia Holland & Annie Whittle
Martha’s death notice born Berkshire https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:782L-9TW2

and is this Arthur on 1901/1891 census address Kilton Street, Battersea, Wandsworth, London & Surrey

1901
Arthur G   Brown   Head   1868 Renhold, Bedfordshire occ painters labourer
Elizabeth   Brown   Wife   1868   Pimlico, Middlesex
John C   Johnson   Brother-In-Law   1881   Pimlico Engineers Machinist

1891
Arthur G   Brown   Head   1868   Renhold, Bedfordshire occ Labourer M Ship Yard
Elizabeth   Brown   Wife   1868   Tailoress   London

Edit to add

Mr A G Brown, occ Decorator
Mrs Brown
Departure 7 10 1909
Departure port   London
Destination port   Durban (Port Natal)
Destination South Africa
Ship name   Dunluce Castle

Thanks Ladyhawk, your research is amazing!!

Lily registered the birth of Arthur Harold BROWN and gave the occupation for Arthur George BROWN as a “labourer at the timber yard”.

In the 1891 census, where Arthur George BROWN is living with his wife Elizabeth (nee JACKSON), his occupation was a “labourer in shipyard”.  This also made me wonder if they were the same person.  The address on the 1892 birth certificate was 38 Park Grove.
In the 1891 census, the family living at 38 Park Grove are:
Robert MASTERS
Mary Ann MASTERS (nee RABBIT)
Florence A MASTERS (correct surname BROWN) – step daughter of Robert
Mary L BROWN – step daughter of Robert
Robert C MASTERS – son of Robert and Mary
William S MASTERS – son of Robert and Mary

No census records for AGB and his wife Elizabeth after 1901.
1914 Marriage for Arthur Harold BROWN listed father as Arthur George BROWN with the occupation of decorator.

Yes, I have the sons of Edward and Lily DAVIS and Edward was one of the witnesses to the 1914 marriage of Arthur Harold BROWN.

No, I had not seen the death record of Arthur George BROWN on Family Search and wouldn’t have considered that they moved overseas.  I had found potential death registrations and hadn’t pursued it further, so this information is a revelation. 

I think Martha and Annie are the sisters of Elizabeth JACKSON.
Bailey, Exon, Coles (Somerset), Clarke, Piper (London) Keith (Ayrshire and Glenarm), McLeod and Matheson (Isle of Skye)

Offline Fluffypants

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 04:31 BST (UK) »
Do you have the death of Mary Ann’s husband George Brown?

Is there a possibility this is the same person no first name, no Regt number

Snippet from link

26th June 1876

Q) it is true that Sergeant Brown, of the 3rd Battalion of Grenadier Guards, on returning from exercise at Wormwood Scrubs on or about the 12th instant, was suddenly taken ill, and died in hospital......

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1876-06-26/debates/a19bf3af-503a-446e-bb2b-eaab66da7684/Army

Is this the death entry?

Jun 1876   St. Geo. H. Sq.   1a   291         
Brown   George   age 31

Sorry, I don’t have a confirmed date of death for George BROWN but had the June 1987 St. Geo. H. Sq as a possible option.  Mary Ann and George’s youngest child, Mary Louise BROWN was born 12 Jan 1876 and Mary Ann remarried to Robert MASTERS on 08 July 1878.  So, presumably George BROWN died between these dates.  It could be worthwhile for me to order the death certificate to confirm to discard this as an option.

Thanks again Ladyhawk, your responses have been invaluable.  Who knew that a question about rank could lead to such treasure.
Bailey, Exon, Coles (Somerset), Clarke, Piper (London) Keith (Ayrshire and Glenarm), McLeod and Matheson (Isle of Skye)

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 07:30 BST (UK) »
Quote
Colour-Sergeant Brown, 3rd Battalion Grenadier Guards, was taken ill on parade immediately after return of the battalion from Wormwood Scrubs; he was admitted to hospital, and died about 4˝ hours after admission from apoplexy.

That is almost certainly him. Well found Ladyhawk. Who thought we'd find his death recorded in Hansard?
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 08:50 BST (UK) »
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 08:55 BST (UK) »
Burial at Brompton Cemetery 16 June 1876

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61801/images/61801_work97_127-00201

I can't view the details from the link as not a member but well found ShaunJ  :)

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 08:57 BST (UK) »

No census records for AGB and his wife Elizabeth after 1901.


So we now know they left for South Africa in 1909 and died there.


Lily registered the birth of Arthur Harold BROWN and gave the occupation for Arthur George BROWN as a “labourer at the timber yard”.


It's possible as Lily's brother Arthur & Elizabeth didn't have any children too cover up that her son was illegitimate when Lily registered his birth, she used her mother's maiden name (Rabbit) and her brother Arthur's details as his father  :-\

Lily could have moved in with Arthur & Elizabeth and they were taking care of her during that time 
:-\
edit to add
I missed the address you gave for on AHB birth cert. (same address as where AHB was living with his grandmother Mary Ann Masters in 1901 & 1911c)

Offline Fluffypants

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 09:09 BST (UK) »
I really appreciate the help that you have both given me.  There's no way I would have been able to find this information.  It's wonderful that these brick walls have now been broken.  The next thing I'll do is order the death certificate for George Brown.  Shame that there isn't a regimental number so I could order his military records.

I'm assuming that the Grenadier Guards weren't involved in any military conflict between 1866 and 1876....but military history is not my strength :)
Bailey, Exon, Coles (Somerset), Clarke, Piper (London) Keith (Ayrshire and Glenarm), McLeod and Matheson (Isle of Skye)

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 09:26 BST (UK) »
Quote
Shame that there isn't a regimental number so I could order his military records.

I am fairly certain his  army number was 1536 but his army records are very unlikely to have survived. Although the Guards regiments kept their own records until recently (all except the Scots Guards are now with the MoD), records for soldiers who died in service were routinely destroyed after a period of time (20 years I think). I am not seeing him on any medal rolls.

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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: Sergeant in the Grenadier Guards
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 11:31 BST (UK) »
There was this query in the FindMyPast Forum a couple of days ago ...seems a familiar tale:

"I was wondering if anyone can give me some tips for researching Grenadier Guards Records in the 1860’s. 
I know the person’s name and his death details (he died whilst in The Guards and a question was asked in Parliament about his death!). .. He was a Colour Sargeant in the 3rd Battalion
."
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk