Author Topic: FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript  (Read 417 times)

Offline MaisieCat

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FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript
« on: Sunday 26 July 20 16:02 BST (UK) »
I just started following up a load of 'hints' on my FindMyPast family tree and clicked on the Civil Births record that was suggested for my GGG - grandfather, William Collins (b1943).

I have never known his mother's maiden name so was interested to see it given as 'Jennings' on the transcription, but I'm puzzled as to where it came from as when I view the image that the transcript was taken from, this detail is not there.

Can anyone shed any light on this - has anyone else come across similar?  I'm thinking it must be an error, although part of me it hoping that it isn't.

Surely the only place that information can have come from is the actual birth certificate - and I'm sure they can't have got it from there  ???

Offline davidft

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Re: FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 26 July 20 16:23 BST (UK) »
If i have got it right you have made an error in your post. The year is not 1943 but 1844.

The record is

WILLIAM COLLINS, MMN JENNINGS 
GRO Reference: 1844  J Quarter in TUNBRIDGE  Volume 05  Page 505

Yes you are correct that the MMN does not show on FindMyPast but it does show on the Government website

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

which FindMyPast have obviously used to update their records.
James Stott c1775-1850. James was born in Yorkshire but where? He was a stonemason and married Elizabeth Archer (nee Nicholson) in 1794 at Ripon. They lived thereafter in Masham. If anyone has any suggestions or leads as to his birthplace I would be interested to know. I have searched for it for years without success. Thank you.

Offline MaisieCat

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Re: FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 26 July 20 16:30 BST (UK) »
I'm sorry.  I put 1843 as that is the year I have had as is birth year for the last 15 years or more and I've got into the habit of calling him 'the 1843 William Collins' as every first born male in that line is called William  ;D.

I really just wanted to check how safe I was in assuming that Jennings is correct because I hadn't come across these transcriptions having information from other sources included. 

Thank you for your very quick reply.  Sunday afternoons are obviously a good time to ask a question :)


Offline MaisieCat

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Re: FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 26 July 20 16:40 BST (UK) »
Hmmm - now I realise they've also matched him to 2Q 1843 Tonbridge Vol 5 P464 with a mother's maiden name of 'Collins', so that one may actually be the correct one.

I suppose I can't tell without paying for both of the original birth certificates referenced  ::)

Offline MaisieCat

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Re: FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 26 July 20 17:07 BST (UK) »
I've now realised that 1843 must be the correct birth year as I have his baptism record

Archive reference: P374/1/B/3; Page: 25; Record set: Kent Baptisms; Subcategory: Parish Baptisms; Category: Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers); Collections from: England, United Kingdom;

Which shows 28 May 1843 as his baptism date.  I'm certain this is the correct baptism because it's in the church where just about everything else from that line of the family has happened.

There have been a lot of changes to the FindMyPast website since I last used it on a regular basis (I used to know my way around it and understand its foibles well, but clearly not anymore  :-[)

I fear I've now created a bit of a mess by accepting some of their hints a bit too readily.

I still don't now know whether or not Jennings is the correct MMN - darn it!


If i have got it right you have made an error in your post. The year is not 1943 but 1844.

The record is

WILLIAM COLLINS, MMN JENNINGS 
GRO Reference: 1844  J Quarter in TUNBRIDGE  Volume 05  Page 505

Yes you are correct that the MMN does not show on FindMyPast but it does show on the Government website

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

which FindMyPast have obviously used to update their records.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 26 July 20 17:14 BST (UK) »
Such 'matches' on FindMyPast are only suggestions, not to be taken as 'fact' without further research.

Have you found William in 1851? Is he the one in Capel, recorded as Collings?
HO107/1615 f305 p10

If so, it looks like his mother Sarah Collins probably married George Lawrence there in 1845. Allegedly a widow, but maybe not ... perhaps William is the 1843 birth with mmn Collins?

If you think this one in Capel is yours, I would start with that 1843 birth certificate.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 26 July 20 18:02 BST (UK) »
Which shows 28 May 1843 as his baptism date.  I'm certain this is the correct baptism because it's in the church where just about everything else from that line of the family has happened.

There have been a lot of changes to the FindMyPast website since I last used it on a regular basis (I used to know my way around it and understand its foibles well, but clearly not anymore

As you’ve now said that you have the baptism on 28 May 1843, I think it must be the Capel family, parents Stephen Collins and Sarah.

1841 shows the family in Capel.
HO107/457/1 f14 p3

Looks like Sarah’s maiden name was also Collins, and they probably married in Wateringbury in 1833.

Stephen Collins died in 1843 at the recorded age of 30 (GRO), buried at Capel 5 Feb 1843 at the recorded age of 31 (parish register).

All these West Kent records have only very recently been uploaded to FindMyPast and the coverage is now quite good. You’ll probably find it easiest to select A-Z Record Sets (from the dropdown Search menu), and then search the databases Kent Baptisms, Kent Marriages & Banns and Kent Burials separately, rather than trying to do a ‘global’ search.

Offline MaisieCat

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Re: FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript
« Reply #7 on: Monday 27 July 20 15:21 BST (UK) »
Thanks Bookbox.  Yes, I have been checking the hints rather that just blindly accepting them.  In fact most of them are links to records I'd already seen years ago, before the facility to link them to your tree on FindMyPast even existed, so it's been quite easy.  This one caught me out a bit because previously I only had an approximate DOB for William, calculated from census records and I'd not pursued his birth certificate. 

I was aware of the 1851 census record that you pointed out and that Sarah re-married, but I haven't yet got around to properly verifying it all. 

I also saw the suggestion on the other birth record that Sarah's maiden name was Collins, and I vaguely remember coming across this previously (I'm not terribly organised with keeping track of unfinished bits of research that never make it into my actual tree), and that I was a bit sceptical, but I suppose it wasn't quite as unusual back then for someone to marry someone with the same surname (or even a cousin) as it is now.  I have found at least one other case of a family member having married a distant relative.

Really what had puzzled me was how the mother's maiden name was appearing in a transcription when that information is not on the image linked to that record. 
I'm sure FindMyPast never used to show that information - otherwise I'd have found it.  Have they gone to all the individual certificates and transcribed the MMN?  If so - how wonderful - I just couldn't find anywhere on their website that confirmed that was the case and I wasn't sure if I could trust the information.

I did have a jolly good look at this particular line quite a while ago and thus had found the family in every available census bar the 1851 one, but I do my research is mostly online and a lot of record sets have been added and the indexing improved since I started doing this about 15 years back.

Anyway, I'm quite enjoying re-visiting and reviewing my tree gradually - going over each line in turn, verifying and seeing what new data is available.  There are about 700 people on my tree, and I was pretty meticulous with my checking before I added people/information, but most of it was done at least 10 years ago, so there are bound to be lots of gaps I can fill and things to be corrected.

It's like a garden - never 'finished'. 

Thanks for your help.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: FindMyPast Civil Births Transcript
« Reply #8 on: Monday 27 July 20 16:09 BST (UK) »
I'm sure FindMyPast never used to show that information - otherwise I'd have found it.  Have they gone to all the individual certificates and transcribed the MMN? 

No, they haven't. I believe they are importing mothers' maiden names gradually using the GRO's own online index, which does include them (as mentioned above in Reply #2). If you've been away from research for a while you may not have seen the indexes on the GRO site. You have to register with an email address/password the first time you use it ...

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

At the same time, you may want to note that the GRO's death index on the above site also includes age at death before 1866, which is not given elsewhere.