Author Topic: Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree  (Read 705 times)

Online avm228

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Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« on: Sunday 26 July 20 21:14 BST (UK) »
My 3x great-grandmother Harriet Elbro had a supposed “sister” Rebecca, whose precise origins I am struggling to find. I’d welcome any help in filling in the gaps in her story.

Harriet and Rebecca were from Gloucestershire, but were in London (specifically Lambeth and Westminster) by the time they were young women, and lived out their adult lives in central London.

Both seem to have had a long-standing connection with a Sophia Bentley née Manwaring (born 1800, Cranbrook, Kent) who was widowed fairly young and lived for decades at 31 Lower Garden St, Westminster. Her daughter Harriet Gibbons née Bentley also features as a marriage witness later on. I have no reason to suppose there was a blood relationship to my Harriet and Rebecca.

My Harriet was born in 1811 in Lower Swell near Stow on the Wold, Gloucestershire, and baptised as the illegitimate daughter of Mary Ann “Elborough” of Lower Swell. As Harriet “Elbro” she married William Haynes in Lambeth in 1839, with Sophia Bentley as a witness - and claimed Thomas Elbro for a father, though this was in fact the name of her maternal uncle. (The other witness was Samuel Hood, perhaps connected with the family of Viscount Hood who employed Harriet, now Haynes, in service in 1841).

In 1851 Harriet and William Haynes had with them at 11 Frederick St, Westminster two lodgers: Rebecca Mason, widow, “wife’s sister” 37 b Stow on the Wold, and her daughter Harriet Mason 6 b St Giles Middlesex.

Rebecca’s story, so far as I know it, is as follows. NB her birth surname is unknown.

c1813-14: Born in Stow on the Wold (per 1851) or Stoke Bishop (per 1861) in Gloucestershire.
1841: Not found.
1845 (14 Jan): Birthdate of daughter Harriet Sophia Mason, per baptism. No birth registration found.
1845 (20 Apr): Baptism (Westminster) of Harriet Sophia, dau of William Mason, carpenter, & Rebecca.
1851: Rebecca and her daughter are with the Haynes family at 11 Frederick St, Westminster.
1853: Rebecca marries widowed labourer James Sullivan, full age, of Regent St. Harriet Gibbons and William Haynes witness. Rebecca’s abode is 11 Frederick St - the Haynes’ address.
1861: Rebecca Sullivan & Harriet, with lodger Sophia Bentley, are at 31 Lower Garden St, Westminster.
1868: Rebecca dies, and her Victoria Park burial record gives her address as Lower Garden St, Westminster.

At present I have her as Rebecca Elbro in my online tree, but there is no evidence of her ever using that surname. Her marriage (if there was one) to William Mason has not been found. When she married James Sullivan she gave her paternal details, oddly, as John Mason, husbandman, deceased.

Another possible maiden surname for Rebecca is Holtom, if she is Harriet’s half-sister. In 1812 Harriet’s mother Mary Ann “Elbrow” married John Holtom in Lower Swell. They had several children in Condicote, Gloucestershire but I have not found a Rebecca among them. At present I have a gap in their family between William 1813 and Thomas 1821.

Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 26 July 20 21:52 BST (UK) »
There's this baptism - female. Image does look like the transcription

Rispor Holtham
Baptism    2 Jun 1816 Condicote, Gloucestershire
Father:    John Holtham , labourer
Mother:    Mary Holtham

Maybe she adopted a more common name?

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Re: Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 26 July 20 22:34 BST (UK) »
Thanks - interesting.

There’s a Rizpah Holtom in the next generation (daughter of William b 1813), but I hadn’t seen the 1816 one. Will have a look.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


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Re: Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 26 July 20 22:50 BST (UK) »
It looks as though Rispor Holtham/Holtom b 1816 can be accounted for as a separate person - but she’s a new addition to the tree, so many thanks.

She married a Joseph Joiner in 1838 and appears in 1851 (Oxon) as Rizpa Joyner, 34 b Condicote.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Brentor boy

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Re: Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« Reply #4 on: Monday 27 July 20 08:21 BST (UK) »
In -1841 there is a Rebecka Holtham, age 20, living with William Holtham, 30, and George, 0, living in  Upper Swell, Stow on the Wold.
GRO Index gives George's mmn as Mills so nothing to immediately link this Rebecca to your Harriet, but perhaps their relationship was not straightforward.

P S. Ignore all that. Rebecka was a schoolmistress in Donnington in 1851

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Re: Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« Reply #5 on: Monday 27 July 20 21:44 BST (UK) »
Thanks for looking, Brentor boy. She’s a tricky one!
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« Reply #6 on: Monday 27 July 20 22:51 BST (UK) »
Tricky is an understatement! 

What happened to daughter Harriet Sophia after Rebecca passed away? 

I wondered if the death for William Mason would be too hard to find and if it would lead back to anything or if Harriet Sophia named him as her father if she married. 
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

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Re: Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« Reply #7 on: Monday 27 July 20 23:30 BST (UK) »
I haven’t managed to trace Harriet Sophia Mason after 1861. I agree it would be good to find her.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 09:06 BST (UK) »
Haven't found any but wondering if there were any more children born to Rebecca that would give us a maiden name.  Either under Mason or Sullivan even though none are on census they may have passed away but still give some small clue.   

"Wife's sister" is pretty specific isn't it, not like sister in law that could be related in a different way.
If correct she should be a Holtom but  :-\
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire