Author Topic: Living in sin  (Read 1468 times)

Offline Viktoria

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 15:19 BST (UK) »
I see it differently, it is clear to me that such arrangements did take place .
Otherwise why did the phrase come into our language and persist ,pertaining to the living together of a couple without benefit of Clergy or registrar  ,to the present day?
Some posts confirm and some deny,it is time this was put to bed ,if you will excuse the expression  :o
!Viktoria.

Offline barryd

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 16:45 BST (UK) »
I believe that Britain once had tax advantages of those living in sin.

In the USA under the Trump tax plan the tax brackets for single filers are exactly half of those for married joint filers.

Other than just raking in more revenue I could never understand the "marriage" penalty".

Offline Mike in Cumbria

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 16:48 BST (UK) »
I see it differently, it is clear to me that such arrangements did take place .
Otherwise why did the phrase come into our language and persist ,pertaining to the living together of a couple without benefit of Clergy or registrar  ,to the present day?
Some posts confirm and some deny,it is time this was put to bed ,if you will excuse the expression  :o
!Viktoria.

Why did it come into the language?  That seems pretty clear if you read Stan's links.
Why did the phrase persist to the present day? Language is like that. "Living over the brush" is a nice euphemism and much friendlier than some of the obvious options.
"Some posts confirm and some deny".  Not really. Some repeat the myth (in good faith), but simply repeating what we've always been told doesn't make it true.
Petit a petit, l’oiseau fait son nid


Offline J Buxton

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 17:31 BST (UK) »
Although it is interesting, the discussion about whether of not people actually jumped over a broomstick and the semantics of the phase was not the original post.  I have found that my working class family tree is has quite a few illegitimate children dotted about and I thought that the stigmatization of these children and their mothers was a middle class phenomena and most people welcomed them as part of the family.  Most parish registers contain records of births to single mothers and so I thought the church took a pragmatic view to unmarried lovers.   I was quite surprised by the Vicar’s comment about the body not being allowed in the church; because an illegitimate child and their mother are around the font at their baptism.   Hence it was more about what the Church’s attitude was to this, that I was seeking comments about.
Buxton - (Derbyshire, Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire)

Offline Viktoria

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 18:04 BST (UK) »
The church had/ has some odd ideas !
Within living memory( mine) women who had just had a baby were not allowed in anyone’s house!
Until you were churched you were in a state of sin.
My  mother in law ,kind soul that she was, brought me a chair outside and an umbrella,when on  my first  walk out I stopped at her house, it started to rain so not being allowed inside that was the best she would or to her, could do.
Honestly!
That does not help  with your question , but just shows the attitude that pertained until the 1950’s.
Best of luck with your research.
Viktoria.

Offline J Buxton

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 18:27 BST (UK) »
Viktoria,

Sorry but could explain what "being churched" is?   And also was this after every birth?
John
Buxton - (Derbyshire, Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire)

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 18:28 BST (UK) »
Yes, J Buxton, I think the priest/ vicar was a bit harsh, she was probably a kind and loving person, let's hope her soul went to where it  should have gone despite the vicars comments

Lm
Census information is Crown Copyright,
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Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 18:30 BST (UK) »
 I think being churched was saying thank you for a safe delivery and hopefully a healthy bouncy baby,  one grandmother I heard say " you don't come back in here till you have been churched", I don't think it is done now

LM
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 18:50 BST (UK) »
It is now called   "Thanksgiving for the Gift of a Child"
https://churchofenglandchristenings.org/for-parents/thanksgiving-service/
Words of the Service http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ps0/
Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk