Author Topic: Living in sin  (Read 1467 times)

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 18:54 BST (UK) »
Viktoria,

Sorry but could explain what "being churched" is?   And also was this after every birth?
John

This site gives a comprehensive explanation of 'Churching'  http://users.ox.ac.uk/~mikef/church.html#intro

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
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Offline Viktoria

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 20:09 BST (UK) »
It also depended on the Rector or Vicar,my first baby 1956,I had to admit I had “ sinned”   ,my inLaw Conned me, “We will go and book the Christening”
She believed babies didn’t not thrive until they had been Baptised!,,,mine gained a lot of weight the first week!
Also the superstition that unbaptised babies did not get to heaven,honestly it is true, that  people -well some- believed that.
So off we went to the Rectory, “ Whilst we are here you had better Church her” —- she wasn’t even my mother!
Well the short service was so out of date, I was blazing mad ,but in church
I did not make a fuss ,I did ask her outside “When  are fathers churched ?”
My second baby,different Rector, and the simple thanksgiving service which I had no objection to, unlike the first which expected me to admit to sinning!!!!!
I did not bother after my third.
Superstition under the guise of religion.
I don’t think it is done nowadays.
I suppose it has roots in the Jewish religion from which Christianity has taken a great deal.
Haven’t times changed!
Viktoria.




Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 21:23 BST (UK) »
The Churching of Women in the Christian Church after Child-Birth had nothing to do with 'uncleaness' or "sinning"

In the Catholic Church the Churching of Women is a a blessing given by the Church to mothers after recovery from childbirth. Only a Catholic woman who has given birth to a child in legitimate wedlock, provided she has not allowed the child to be baptized outside the Catholic Church, is entitled to it. It is not a precept, but a pious and praiseworthy custom
In the Church of England The Churching of Women was the common name for the Thanksgiving of Women After Child-Birth.
The Book of Common Prayer:-

The Woman, at the usual time after her Delivery, shall come into the Church decently apparelled, and there shall kneel down in some convenient place, as hath been accustomed, or as the Ordinary shall direct: And then the Priest shall say unto her,
FOR AS MUCH as it hath pleased Almighty God of his goodness to give you safe deliverance, and hath preserved you in the great danger of Child-birth: you shall therefore give hearty thanks unto God, and say,
(Then shall the Priest say the 116th
Psalm.)...............................................

............................Minister. Let us pray.
ALMIGHTY God, we give thee humble thanks for that thou hast vouchsafed to deliver this woman thy servant from the great pain and peril of Child-birth: Grant, we beseech thee, most merciful Father, that she, through thy help, may both faithfully live, and walk according to thy will, in this life present; and also may be partaker of everlasting glory in the life to come; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.


Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 21:32 BST (UK) »
There are numerous posts about the Churching of Women on RootsChat


I don’t think it is done nowadays.

As I posted it is now called   "Thanksgiving for the Gift of a Child"

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
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Online mazi

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 22:00 BST (UK) »
As well as suicides the book of common prayer requires that the burial service be not used for those excommunicated, I wonder if the vicar had decided she was guilty of a lesser excommunication
by not confessing to her “sin”, it may have been just the body that was not allowed into the church, not a general ban on anyone guilty of the same.

I also think the word “lover’ a bit modern for 1817, there were more forceful words he could have used.

Some vicars were very high church then, almost to the point of being Roman Catholic in all but name.

Mike

Offline Viktoria

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 30 July 20 00:40 BST (UK) »
Well  Stan in one paragraph it states that a woman who has a son should  be barred from the Temple for forty days and twice as long for a daughter,
and the rites should be seen as an atonement   for the woman.
So that indicates sinning .
Leviticus.
As I said it is from Judaism.
Whatever - it did become a thanksgiving , all I can say is I knelt in church fuming ,absolutely enraged , there was just the Rector, my mother in law and me. Only a year before I had listened to my marriage service where the the same Rector had read from the Prayer book that marriage was for the procreation of children!

It was not the Book of Common  Prayer  that was used ,but a booklet,thin
and well used.
There were many prejudices against women almost up to the present day,we had to cover our heads but men bared theirs.
Ah well, that has changed too.
Cheerio.
Viktoria.

Offline Sloe Gin

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #33 on: Friday 31 July 20 02:46 BST (UK) »
It is a myth because there were no such "marriages". Broomstick was an adjective meaning a sham.
In The Times  Mar. 6, 1839 the Bishop of London called the 1836 Marriage Act, the Broomstick Marriage Act, because it allowed civil marriages, which he considered a sham.
As I posted for a more detailed explanation see pages 84+ in "Marriage Law and Practice in the Long Eighteenth Century: A Reassessment" By Rebecca Probert http://www.rootschat.com/links/01prk/

Yes, but you also mentioned "handfasting rituals" as being a myth. 
I don't think it can be said that such unofficial marriages never took place.  Some of my ancestors were Romany gypsies, and while some of them are recorded as having married in church, many did not.  It would not surprise me if they held some kind of ceremony according to their own customs. 
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that a broom was part of it!  But perhaps something like a handfasting ceremony.
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Offline Redroger

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #34 on: Friday 31 July 20 16:50 BST (UK) »
I had a gypsy customer (1990s) then aged around 60 who freely stated she had married at the age of 14 and that it was prearranged,She was then around 50 so this would be in the mid 1950s
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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Living in sin
« Reply #35 on: Friday 31 July 20 20:22 BST (UK) »
In the Church of England every woman who has giving birth is entitled to be churched. There is a very good explanation in The Book of Church Law, By Henry Blunt, D.D. Chapter VI. Pages 160-164.
The pages also provide Case law and decrees to substantiate the facts provided.
I would add them here but they would be too long and I cannot add them to a website either at present.
Cheers
Guy
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