Author Topic: Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.  (Read 975 times)

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Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.
« on: Tuesday 28 July 20 22:43 BST (UK) »
My ancestor was Charles Dister (1614-1692). He wed Ann in about 1645. I have a good feeling that Anne was Anne Raymond originally, sister of Oliver Raymond but need to try and confirm it for sure. Not found their marriage yet.

In 1640, a George Scott bore an indenture in September 1640 between George Scott and Oliver Raymond of a marriage agreed upon by George Scott and Anne Raymond - a marriage that never took place. Seems George died by 1642 and was lost at sea as his will was proved in 1642. In his will he mentions his brother Frederick Scott.

In 1647, Charles and Anne Dister are plaintiffs in a case against Frederick Scott about the personal estate of George Scott. Also in 1649 Charles Dister is the plaintiff against Frederick Scott regarding a marriage contract.

Charles' father John Dister left a will in 1657 and mentions his son Charles and grandson Charles, and mentions land he bought off Oliver Raymond Esq for his son Charles Dister (born 1614), and if Charles dies, then to Charles' son Charles (born c1650).

Charles Jnr born c1650 was apprenticed in London in 1668 to St Clere Raymond, who was Oliver's son. Charles married Hannah Aylett and they had some children. Charles left a will in 1692 mentioning wife and children. One of the witnesses to the will was John Raymond.

Oliver died in 1679 and left a will but only mentioned wife and children. Apparently his dad John Raymond died in 1635 and his mum Anne (Nee Sparrow) died in 1652 in Belchamp Walter. I cannot find evidence they left any wills.







Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline amondg

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Re: Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 29 July 20 06:59 BST (UK) »
Image on ancestry. This is the one you have already my mistake.

Oliver Raymond's will was proved PPC wills 28 May 1679
appears to have been written 1675
Wife Frances, son St. Clere, son William
3 daughters Frances, Sarah and Mary
grandchildren John Raymond, William Raymond and Edward Raymond.
brother John Raymond

There are a great many references to properties that are in the occupation of etc.

There is another Oliver Raymond will again PCC probate dated 13 November 1679 also of Walter Belchamp Essex but it is in latin.

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Re: Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 30 July 20 00:01 BST (UK) »
Yes I cannot understand the Latin will.

So close, and I am sure Anne Dister was a Raymond by birth, but I feel I just need some confirmation. I sometimes find it hard to understand the legal jargon written in wills.

Here is a transcript of George Scott's will from 1640. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zNxsv5Ul_9wC&pg=PA254&dq=%22George+scott%22+1640&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-3ZWMx_PqAhWUbsAKHRppA7UQ6AEwAnoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q=%22George%20scott%22%201640&f=false

He mentions a 1635 indenture regarding his late father and a 1640 indenture regarding a marriage to Anne Raymond ( the one that never took place as he was lost at sea and his will proved 1642) and leaves some land to his brother Frederick "in said last indenture". Does he mean the 1635 or the 1640 one, as I am not sure if he was talking date wise or which indenture was most recently mentioned in the will?

The 1647 and 1649 cases against Frederick Scott went to Chancery.

Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline amondg

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Re: Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 30 July 20 05:28 BST (UK) »
I looked at the register for Belchamp Walter and at the edge of the page near the death of Ann Raymond widow burial 6 December 1652 is written

This Ann Raymond widow of John who purchased the estate in 1611.

Doesn't help with relationships though just confirms which Ann Raymond died


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Re: Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 30 July 20 18:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks.

Seems Anne Snr did not leave a will. If she did, it would crack the case. May be a good idea to see if Anne Raymond (possibly late Dister) had any other siblings apart from Oliver. Or if her parents had any siblings and if they left a will and mentioned Anne Dister.

It is just our luck sometimes when people did not leave a will even if they had property, or if a sibling of a likely ancestor left a will but only kept it to wife/husband and children.

I shall keep doing some more digging. Those 1647 and 1649 Chancery records are not online and I live a long way from Kew. They probably hold the key.

Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline amondg

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Re: Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.
« Reply #5 on: Friday 31 July 20 05:30 BST (UK) »
Findmypast has an Essex Wills Beneficiary index Not back far enough perhaps
Strutt, Belchamp Otten 1692 lists Hannah, Charles, Daniel, William, John Dister

Essex Record Office
I looked at the will it's Mary Strutt widow, she has purchased the reversion of the estate from her brother Thomas and to avoid lawsuits .......
She names cousins but no relationship when it comes to the Disters.
Charles, Daniel, John and William sons of Charles Dister 20 pounds each. Hannah Dister wife of Charles gets 100 pounds plus ... as I contracted for in the marriage articles. Hannah also gets "all my moveable goods without doars (sp) and all linens and wearing apparel.

Offline amondg

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Re: Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.
« Reply #6 on: Friday 31 July 20 06:14 BST (UK) »
Anne Raymond 1695 widow of Belchamp Walter PCC Wills (on ancestry as 8 February 1694)

Mentions debts and funeral expenses of her late husband, Jane wife of John Symonds of Yeldham in Essex and Sir John Burgoyn of Sutton in Bedford Baronet guardians of her son John.
Then it gets confusing mother in law? Robert St Clere Raymond gent 200 pounds, William Raymond my uncle (looks like) 50 pounds for all their kindness to me.
John Symonds my brother and Jane Symonds my sister executors.

You must read it yourself, perhaps Jane Symonds is her real sister or could be sister in law.

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Re: Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.
« Reply #7 on: Friday 31 July 20 13:10 BST (UK) »
Thanks. I shall have to peruse those wills myself.

I just looked at Genealogical Gleanings in England and a note says George Scott who died in 1642 left William Ballow as his executor but a note says William died by the time the will was proved and Frederick Scott had to administer the will. And in 1647 and 1649, Charles and Anne Dister sued Frederick over a marriage contract and George's estate.

Very strong conjecture, and just need to try and confirm it if I can. Keep at it as they say.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

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Re: Dister and Raymond family, Belchamp Otten/Walter.
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 06 August 20 18:57 BST (UK) »
UPDATE:

A great development here, I had a read of the original will of George Scott, showing that you should always read originals, as the transcript missed pieces out.

In his 1640 will, George agreed to pay Oliver Raymond some money, and he also agreed to pay Anne Raymond £400 if he died before the marriage could be completed, and the payment to be handled by his executors. This happened to be the case as George was lost at sea and his will proved in 1642, and Frederick Scott became the executor as the original one, William Ballowe, died in between 1640 and 1642.

And later, Anne Dister and her husband Charles sued Frederick Scott over the personal estate of George Scott, and again over a marriage contract.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain