1889 Historical --Victoria Australia Birth certificates - the procedure

[majm]

1916 marriage ....

Are you sure the woman named as the mother of the bride had to be there at the ceremony...

Born 1889 and marrying in 1916 means that the bride was old enough to give her own consent to her own marriage.


JM

Thank you  JM

I see the site i used to calculate  the day of the week was  wrong.
Monday makes much more sense, thank you .

re the notation .
This  cert was given to me in 2 pieces and would you believe the seam is right on it.   However i see there is the  2 initials ( JL )  for John Lake  the Deputy Reg   so i guess it was by the  Registery.
I was surprised  that a tiny little town  had Registry .

Re the Marriage cert issue .
No no , mistake there.,  i'm sure it  was an intentional  entry,  i have spoken to a  few Priests on this issue  and  each has said in this context  very very unlikely  to be a mistake.    The woman  named    would have had to be physically there on the day  and it is so unlikely,     she was from hundreds of miles away from a nearby town.

 The only witnesses were the Wife and daughter of the Clergy man ( Congregational Church)   and for that womans name to  happen by accident is so so remote.

 No i feel  sure there is no mistake  with it.   I guess as it was   legally compelling    and she knew  that a Marriage   record   must be  a true one.         So i  imagine her own Mother had  told her  about her parentage  story.

When this women died in  *1889 - 1931 in Malaya ,   no obits appeared in Vic from either of her supposed parents. 

And when  those  supposed parents died,  neither had her name as a child on their    victorian death certs .     They never married   and were quite separate people but  in isolated rural area  where everyone  knew every one .

Also her own death cert   is a complete mystery  and impossible to get  from Malaysia
even when she  was interviewed  in Australia  as a well known  Soprano her age  fluctuated greatly  and as i mentioned before  she was at a well know Catholic College known for its  singing training .  She def was a student  not a teacher, nor a training teacher.   But a very  old student.  There are  no enrolment details  i have triple checked .

There is a   NSW over the border Baptism for her   aged 21 !!!  and again  there is the wrong birthdate on that as well .

The story goes  her Father  who  was not married to mother  heard her singing and  got her into this college and paid the fees .   So she at some point changed her name to his from her  mothers  surname.

So  i am  going beck to all her certs and rechecking all that  of them  carefully.

And any family connected to who i think  was the mother  do not want to engage with this hypothisis  at all ......  so  i am keeping it  private  to be respectful of others  really but i appreciate it  would be helpful to put the certs up for sure.

Its a   hot mess !!!

[majm]

May I please disagree with the apparent strictness of the  advice given to you from the priests re the details recorded by a Congreational Reverend about the mother of the bride. 

I have had a long chat on the phone with one of my living retired family members ... a retired clergyman interested in admin historic practices'.   

Some thoughts:
  If mother of the bride was present, she would be invited by clergy to be an official witness ahead of the clergy' s family. 
  Often clergy wrote details into their diaries and then wrote up their local church register after the actual ceremony, so the bride and groom and witnesses signed an incomplete record on the day.    Priests of the Roman Catholic denomination may have had very little practical  knowledge of the ways of the clergy in the Congregatonal rites or any of the other minor  Protesting denominations.

JM

[susiee]

Thank   you   Majm

The only people present were the bride, groom , clergy and his wife and daughter .

[susiee]

Thank again .

She was also  at the Sydney Con eventually   and toured Australia,    and i  have a ton of  articles about her. The   problem being she was literally in   a normal  school  where the students are gone no later than age  17 ----- that just happened  to have   a well known at    Musical program     and she was there 1909 -1912 .

[cando]

There is a public tree on ancestry with all the information and certificates.  It would appear to be yours.  However not all forum members have a subscription to Ancestry.

Your grandmother would not be mentioned on either of the death certs of her 'parents' as she wasn't issue of their individual marriages even if she was the biological child of either of them. 

Local bdm's registrars in Victoria in that era and later, were often simply members of the community who were asked to take on the role.  I see nothing odd in a birth being registered two months after the 'event'.

Having researched and eventually found the true facts of illegitimate births and subsequent 'cover ups' during my many years of interest in genealogy, nothing suprises me anymore.  It is also possible that your ancestor was giving information that had been given to her over the years.

Finally the name Henrietta was aka as Mary.

[cando]

Susiee you have mentioned this family in a previous post on rootschat.

[majm]

Thank again .

She was also  at the Sydney Con eventually   and toured Australia,    and i  have a ton of  articles about her. The   problem being she was literally in   a normal  school  where the students are gone no later than age  17 ----- that just happened  to have   a well known at    Musical program     and she was there 1909 -1912 .

Perhaps she had joined a Convent with a view to become a nun and was in training.  That would explain the likely baptism as an adult that you mentioned earlier. 


JM

[Dundee]

The story goes  her Father  who  was not married to mother  heard her singing and  got her into this college and paid the fees .   So she at some point changed her name to his from her  mothers  surname.

Birth certificates had no provision for a surname to be given to the child.  If you read it properly you will see that the only fields were date and place of birth, first names,  whether or not the child was present at the time of registration, and the sex of the child.  The child could use or be known as any surname they chose throughout their life as long as it wasn't for fraudulent reasons.

Do you know who raised the child?

Debra 

[Nanna52]

As information I have a birth certificate for an ancestor in the early 1900’s where informant was stated as sister, then changed to aunt.  So probably not a rare mistake.

As for marriage certificates I have seen a number where false information was given, my great grandfather was repeatedly ‘ killed off’ By his estranged children.  Death certificates and obituaries are given by people who don’t have all the facts.  Mistakes happen.