The Turley family of Lye and Quarry Bank

[mezentia]

I am researching the family of Samuel Turley (1830 - ) and Mary Ann Cook (1833 - ), and I think I need a bit of help 

Samuel and Mary appear to have had five children:

Richard b 1854 in Lye, but I think his birth was registered as Richard Cook Dec Quarter Stourbridge 6c 160, no mother's maiden name. I suspect that Richard was before his parents married, and the C in his 1861 census entry may stand for Cook.

Charles b 1859 in Lye, June quarter Stourbridge 6c 185, Mother's maiden name Cook

Samuel William b 1862 in Lye, September quarter Stourbridge 6c 175, Mother's maiden name: Cooke

Hannah b 1866 in Quarry Bank, Dec Quarter Stourbridge 6c 228, Mother's maiden name: Cooke

Alice b 1872 in Quarry Bank, March quater Stourbridge 6c 239, Mothre's maiden name: Cook

Richard is listed as Richard C Turley in the 1861 census (RG9 Piece 2067 Folio 66 Page 29)

Richard seems to have married someone called Sarah, and he can be traced through the census to 1911:

1871 RG10 Piece 3030 Folio 45 Pages 29 - 30
1881 RG11 Piece 2896 Folio 122 Page 24
1891 RG12 Piece 3210 Folio 118 Page 12
1901 RG13 Piece 2762 Folio 114 Page 17
1911 RG14 Piece 17496 Schedule 318

His children appear to be:

James b 1879 in Quarry Bank
Hannah b 1880 in Quarry Bank
John b 1883 in Quarry Bank
Richard b 1886 in Quarry Bank
Mary b 1891 in Quarry Bank

Sarh seems to have died in 1895: 1895 JFM Stourbridge 6c 138

And now to the problems. I can find no suitable marriage for Richard and Sarah. I am having difficulty identifying birth index entries for any of his children, although a maiden surname of Jones and district Stourbridge does occur three times, for John, Richard and Mary.

The 1911 census has him listed as Step-father, and his son John as Step-brother, with the head of the household being a James Jones. Coincidence?

I still have census entries for Richards chidren to track down, but the Step father, Step brother entries on the 1911 census have quite thrown me. I know that the Step- relationship may sometimes refer to a connection through marriage, e.g. in-law, but I can't see how this could be in this case, unless James Jones is Sarah's brother. Maybe a fresh pair of eyes can see things I can't at the moment 

[trish1120]

Charles John TURLEY bapt 30 Jul 1859    Lye to SAMUEL/MARY ANN
Father a Collier
(FreeREG)

HANNAH TURLEY Cook bapt 18 Feb 1880 (birth 07 Feb 1880)
Parents RICHARD/SARAH Cook
Father a Miner
Note Child's first name spelled Anna in register

Both on FreeREG

Trish

[suzard]

Marriage reg
3rd quarter 1879
Dudley
on same page
Richard Turley Cook
Sarah Jones
6C 87

Suz

[suzard]

The 1911 census has him listed as Step-father, and his son John as Step-brother, with the head of the household being a James Jones. Coincidence?

I still have census entries for Richards chidren to track down, but the Step father, Step brother entries on the 1911 census have quite thrown me. I know that the Step- relationship may sometimes refer to a connection through marriage, e.g. in-law, but I can't see how this could be in this case, unless James Jones is Sarah's brother. Maybe a fresh pair of eyes can see things I can't at the moment 
[/quote]

James Jones who is head of house 1911 -wife Mona
this looks like their marriage
select marriages
James Henry Jones age 22 no father named
Monah Brettle age 22 father William Brettle
married Lye Worcs 3 Jan 1900

Suz

[trish1120]

Could the James Jones in 1911 be this one?

James b 1879 in Quarry Bank*****
Hannah b 1880 in Quarry Bank
John b 1883 in Quarry Bank
Richard b 1886 in Quarry Bank
Mary b 1891 in Quarry Bank

Birth Reg;
JONES, JAMES  ERNEST     - 
GRO Reference: 1876  D Quarter in STOURBRIDGE  Volume 06C  Page 219

So born before the 1879 Marriage of Richard/Sarah and likely not his Son?

Trish

[mezentia]

Thanks everyone for the help.  I now think I can explain what was happening in this family. The first  of Richard and Sarah's children was illegitimate, but on the censuses, all the children were given the surname Turley until 1911, clearly as a disguise. On the 1911 census, I think that the James Jones is actually Richard's first son, now using the surname he was registered with at birth, and listing his father and brother as step relations in order to "legitimise" the relationships in the household.

I did look at freeReg, but didn't find anything the first time I tried, but with the information thats been provided here I think I should be able to track down the right entries. 

[trish1120]

1879 index of Marriage is on Anc. Sarahs Father is JAMES Jones.
Richard Turley Cook has his Father as SAMUEL Cook

[suzard]

Could the James Jones in 1911 be this one?

James b 1879 in Quarry Bank*****
Hannah b 1880 in Quarry Bank
John b 1883 in Quarry Bank
Richard b 1886 in Quarry Bank
Mary b 1891 in Quarry Bank

Birth Reg;
JONES, JAMES  ERNEST     - 
GRO Reference: 1876  D Quarter in STOURBRIDGE  Volume 06C  Page 219

So born before the 1879 Marriage of Richard/Sarah and likely not his Son?

Trish

I think the James was James Henry jones-1911census he was with wife mona - there is a 1900 marriage of James Henry Jones to mona brettle
I am out at the moment so this is from memory - will recheck when I am home

Suz

[trish1120]

Thanks Suz