Author Topic: George Baldwin - m - Elizabeth Bathe 1859 Wilts - different father's names  (Read 251 times)

Offline ribbo39

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Hi folks,

I am posting this query about a marriage and the certificates showing two different father's names.

I originally purchased the first cert. in 2013 which gave the father as James and have being trying to research that ancestry ever since without any success. A few weeks ago, when on Ancestry.co.uk I came across the original register and thought I would take a screenshot of the marriage entry, as it appeared different from the one I purchased years ago. This time I noticed the father is named Thomas. In all other aspects, the entries are identical other than the father's name.

I wrote to the GRO and sent them copies and asked for them to assist me.Their eventual reply was somewhat disappointing as they said any problem should have been brought up within 3 months of the purchase. I pointed out to them that the original had only just come to my attention  but they are adamant it should have been within the 3 month  period and suggested I contact the local register office.

To me that seems rather unhelpful as they (the local register office) will only be able to tell me what is written in the marriage register, presumably  “Thomas".

Has anyone else come across this situation before? and if so what action, if any, did they take?

I’ve attached copies of each cert. (hopefully you can read OK) in case others may be looking for the same family.

Would love to hear if others have had a similar problem.

Alan
Browse, Peggs, Revans/Revance/Ribbans, Spall,   in Suffolk/Norfolk
Belcher, Elderfield, Froude, Saunders,  Stimson, Tame,   in Berks
Artis, Gray in Norfolk

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: George Baldwin - m - Elizabeth Bathe 1859 Wilts - different father's names
« Reply #1 on: Friday 31 July 20 01:24 BST (UK) »

 
The first one, on pink paper, is an image of the original document......signatures for Elizabeth BATHE and Caroline BALDWIN are individual.

The second image is the document created for the national record...transcribed from an earlier record. Everything on the second document is written by the one hand.

The GRO document has been transcribed as James....a transcription error.

If you can see that the original record has father named as Thomas BALDWIN, assume that it is correct.

Offline Jamjar

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Re: George Baldwin - m - Elizabeth Bathe 1859 Wilts - different father's names
« Reply #2 on: Friday 31 July 20 03:35 BST (UK) »
Yes, I’d go with the first one.

Could be his family:

Possible marriage, Thomas BALDWIN to Elizabeth BAILEY, 1819: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK71-VX3

1841: I can’t find them. Can anyone?  :-\

1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGZX-CQ8

1861: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7J3-FFQ

1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFNT-FF3

1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-NKXC

1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4V6N-7MM

Possibly Caroline’s son:

BALDWIN, JOHN  BLACKALL     - 
GRO Reference: 1857  M Quarter in HIGHWORTH AND SWINDON  Volume 05A  Page 4

Deaths:

BALDWIN, ELIZABETH  65 
GRO Reference: 1864  J Quarter in HIGHWORTH AND SWINDON  Volume 05A  Page 1

BALDWIN, THOMAS  78 
GRO Reference: 1876  S Quarter in HIGHWORTH  Volume 05A  Page 4
Possible christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2HN-GHW

BALDWIN, CAROLINE  64 
GRO Reference: 1894  M Quarter in HIGHWORTH  Volume 05A  Page 5

Looks like George and family are with sister and her son, in 1881, see other 1881 listing above:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-NKFD

1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFNT-FFW

1861: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7JQ-T7K

Jamjar

Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams


Online majm

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Re: George Baldwin - m - Elizabeth Bathe 1859 Wilts - different father's names
« Reply #3 on: Friday 31 July 20 05:12 BST (UK) »
I have not ever sought GRO to follow up on any issue as most of my migrating ancestors were not from Wales or England, but I can definitely confirm that 'Thomas' can often be mis-read as 'James' and vice versa.   Same with their contractions:- Tom v Jim and Tommy v Jimmy.... and I would have expected GRO to readily acknowledge that there may be a mis-read.  As to when the initial mis-read occurred .... did it happen around the quarter that the local returns were sent to GRO or did it happen when an index was prepared or when an online database was uploaded .... But GRO ought to thank you for your contribution to accuracy and perhaps offer a discount voucher for a future purchase.   :)

JM
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Offline youngtug

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Re: George Baldwin - m - Elizabeth Bathe 1859 Wilts - different father's names
« Reply #4 on: Friday 31 July 20 07:02 BST (UK) »
The GRO sent me a birth cert, placing Boxmoor in Herefordshire instead of Hertfordshire. I thought it likely to be a rare occurrence but it might  not be.
.http://www.rootschat.com/links/05q2/   
  WILSON;-Wiltshire.
 SOUL;-Gloucestershire.
 SANSUM;-Berkshire-Wiltshire
 BASSON-BASTON;- Berkshire,- Oxfordshire.
 BRIDGES;- Wiltshire.
 DOWDESWELL;-Wiltshire,Gloucestershire
 JORDAN;- Berkshire.
 COX;- Berkshire.
 GOUDY;- Suffolk.
 CHATFIELD;-Sussex-- London
 MORGAN;-Blaenavon-Abersychan
 FISHER;- Berkshire.
 BLOMFIELD-BLOOMFIELD-BLUMFIELD;-Suffolk.
DOVE. Essex-London
YOUNG-Berkshire
ARDEN.
PINEGAR-COLLIER-HUGHES-JEFFERIES-HUNT-MOSS-FRY

Offline Raybistre

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Re: George Baldwin - m - Elizabeth Bathe 1859 Wilts - different father's names
« Reply #5 on: Friday 31 July 20 16:17 BST (UK) »
Not too long ago, I sent off for a copy of my birth certificate to the local Superintendant Registrar covering the area in which I was born.
On receiving it by post I noticed that I was my own father!
A few days later I was able to call at the office and query this. I was asked to wait and after about 10 mins was given a replacement certificate with the correct entries.
So mistakes do happen. Transcription is always subject to possible errors, I know, having transcribed records and made errors.
Ray

Offline ribbo39

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Re: George Baldwin - m - Elizabeth Bathe 1859 Wilts - different father's names
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 01 August 20 02:58 BST (UK) »
Thank you all for your thoughts.

I personally don't think anyone at the GRO read my message as I had to submit it using their form only to get auto replies.

When I replied saying how dis-appointed I was with their response, is when they said I had to submit an error within 3 months of purchase and/or subsequently apply to the local register office.

In my last email to them I did suggest perhaps a refund would be in order but again they seem to have glossed over that.

An initial  ring to them  didn't really help as they are short staffed because of the virus pandemic.

As has been suggested, I will take the original entry as my search point.

I just thought I would post in case anyone else is following the same family.

Alan
Browse, Peggs, Revans/Revance/Ribbans, Spall,   in Suffolk/Norfolk
Belcher, Elderfield, Froude, Saunders,  Stimson, Tame,   in Berks
Artis, Gray in Norfolk

Offline rosie99

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Re: George Baldwin - m - Elizabeth Bathe 1859 Wilts - different father's names
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 01 August 20 08:37 BST (UK) »
The trouble with the GRO copy of a marriage is that it is taken from the image that the register office/church sent to them.  From what I understand the copy sent to them is not from the original register which the bride and groom sign but a separate transcription so the mistake would have been made at that point.   
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