Martin Brothers - Gartly

[alanatabz]

More....

Evening Express March 28th 1945

"Mr and Mrs J Martin, Birkhill Cottages Gartly, have just learned their youngest son George is presumed killed"

So Peter seem to be a red -herring based on Peter Martin being an Shanquhar in Valuation role (unless he was an uncle?)

[dowdstree]

I have been doing a little more digging on SP as to who could be the parents of George Martin in the absence of a Birth Certificate.

1.  John Reid Martin married Mary Jane Ross on 27/6/1908 Huntly - John's age is given as 48 and a widower. Mary Jane's age is given as 35 and a spinster. John is living at 34 George Street, Huntly.
From this we can assume that Mary Jane would have been too old to have had a child in 1924.

2.  John Martin married Jane Hall on 25/7/1908 Huntly - John's age is given as 24 and Jane's as 26 both single. John's address is given as 34 George Street, Huntly and his father as John Reid Martin. So John Martin was the son of John Reid Martin by his 1st wife.
From this we can be almost 100% certain that George's parents were John Martin and Jane Hall.

3.  From the 1891 and 1901 Census for John Reid Martin there is a son named Peter born around 1885 so the Peter Martin in the 1940 valuation roll would have been a son of John Reid Martin.

Hope this all makes sense to you.

Dorrie

[dowdstree]

Forgot to add  -

John Reid Martin born 25/6/1911 - was the son of John Martin and Jane Hall.
William Martin born 12/2/1917    -  was the son of John Martin and Jane Hall.

Oldest two siblings of George Martin.

Dorrie

[alanatabz]

Hi Dorrie

Wow! Quite a lot of work in there, many thanks for that.

I seem to have a knack of writing wartime events and find nothing is straightforward.   Thats two in a row where the person im researching ha no grave.....

The knowledge and info on here is amazing,  i have been burning up the credits on SP and getting nowhere fast.

Many thanks again




Alan

[MonicaL]

Just in summary of what is being discussed:

John Reid Martin, son of John Reid Martin and Helen Bremner born c 1884 in Huntly.

1891 census with family provided by Colin earlier.

1901 he is working away from home as a cattleman on farm in Drumblade.

1908  John and Jane Hall marry on 27 June.

1911 John, Jane and first of daughters, Charlotte are to be found in Huntly

1911-25 The Martins look to have remained in Huntly with the births of their children:
Charlotte 1910 - confirmed
John 1911 - confirmed
Peter 1913 - confirmed
Helen 1915
William 1917 - confirmed
Mary 1918 - confirmed
James 1920
Alexander 1922
George 1924

We seem to have picked up an extra son and still missing one daughter! Not getting where a grandson who would have been old enough to be in service in WW2 would come in though 

Monica

[dowdstree]

No problem Alan. What else is there to do on a very wet day 

Monica that is a great summery but cannot place the Peter born in 1913 so I will have another look on SP.

Take care all,

Dorrie

[MonicaL]

I think the family were in Cairnie for at least 1930 and 1935 VRs (John shows at HOUSE AND LAND SINSHARNIE NO 10).

Some of the children married in this period in Cairnie:

1931 Peter married a Helen Morrison
1931 Charlotte married an Alfred Pacitti
1932 John married a Margaret Pacitti
1935 Mary married a George Logie Bremner

Related to Mary, a sad story covered here relating to her:

63.George Logie Bremner#10601, b. 04 April 1907 in Ythan Wells, ABD, SCT,180 d. 02 April 1988 in 18 Park Street North, Huntly, ABD, SCT,181 occupation Farm Worker.1935: Lived at 17 East Park Street, Huntly, ABD when married.He married (1) Mary Martin #10801, 22 February 1935 in Cairnie, ABD, SCT,182 b. 12 September 1918 in Huntly, ABD, SCT,183 (daughter of John Martin #60914 [Forestry Worker] and Jane Hall #60915), occupation 1935 Hosiery Factory Worker, d. 07 January 1998 in Glyncorrwg, S. Glamorgan, WAL.82Mary: 1935: Lived at Hillview, Cairnie, ABD when married.....and then goes on to newspaper reporting.

www.brebner.com/uploads/bre14201.pdf Pages 13-14

Monica

[dowdstree]

Helen Martin was born on 12/5/1915 so that is her birth now confirmed.

I think the missing daughter is Annie Mitchell Hall illegitimate daughter of Jane Hall born 19/8/1898. On the 1911 Census she is listed as aged 12 and step daughter of John Martin. Annie married a Thomas Foley in 1918 and there is a son also named Thomas born in 1927 (no image available) That would make him a step grandson to John Martin and he would have been old enough to have fought in the later years of WW2. So that should clear up the mystery grandson.

The extra son I think would have been Peter born in 1913 and I think that is who John and Jane were lodging with in the 1940 Valuation Roll. For whatever reason perhaps Peter did not serve in WW2 or was discharged early and that is why only the 5 serving sons are mentioned in the Newspaper article by John Martin.

It is indeed a sad story relating to Mary.

Monica can you cast an expert eye over my findings and see if you agree.

Dorrie

[MonicaL]

Great find Dorrie of Jane's daughter  We don't know anything re Jane Hall do we. As you mention, there is the likely grandson.

I agree with you re John and Jane maybe staying with their son in the mention in the 1940 newspaper clip. We need the 1945 VRs now don't we!

I also agree that son Peter for whatever reason may not have been in the army in the 1940s (whether he was rejected or other reason hard to say)...unless a mistake was made on the number of sons John Martin had in military service.

Struggling to find anything further back in Scotland around the 1940s. I cannot see Jane Hall's death so far (using the two surnames) 

Monica