Author Topic: James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith  (Read 459 times)

Offline SUZANNE180

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James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith
« on: Tuesday 04 August 20 00:10 BST (UK) »
Hi All
I would be very grateful for your help.
I am struggling to move on a James Dean born around 1799 - or 1795 according to some census info, but he was born according to all census records in Chapel en le frith and he never strays from that between 1841 and 1881. According to a family bible I know that he did marry Margaret  in Rainbow in 1827 and they had a son Francis (male) who was my 3rd great grandfather. So these are facts.
I also have the marriage cert for Francis Dean who married Ann rowbotham in 1850 in Sutton near Macclesfield (again I know this is correct from the family bible). Marriage cert for Francis/Ann
shows James is Father of Francis and is a painter.
Witnesses at this marriage are what I think says a John Lowe and  Mary or May Lowe
.
I have been struggling for a very very long time to find out who James Deans parents are. Particularly as I've been obsessed with finding a baptism in Chapel en le Frith.


Here are some early census details to help you with his family:
1851 census  has James Dean's age transcribed as 51 (but I think its written on the census as 57)
and p.o.b. as Chapel en le Frith Cheshire -
living at Crompton Rd Macclesfield Cheshire
James Dean Head M 57 Master Plasterer Chapel en le frith Derbys
Margaret wife M 53 Rainow Cheshire
Frances daughter S 21 Hand Loom weaver silk Rainow Cheshire
Matthew son S 17 Silk  Mill Piecer Rainow Cheshire
Margaret daughter 16 Silk Piecer Rainow Cheshire
Elizabeth daughter 10 scholar Macclesfield Cheshire
William Leigh son in law M 26 Hand Loom Weaver silk Knutsford Cheshire
Sarah Ann Leigh daughter M 23 Silk Warper Rainow Cheshire
William Leigh grandson 2 macclesfield Cheshire
HO107 2160 499 44

1851 Francis -son isn't there as he got married in 1850 to Ann Rowbotham
1841 Frances - daughter is entered as Fanny

1841
Rope Walk Macclesfield Cheshire
James dean 40 Silk Steward - no to being born in Cheshire
Margaret 40 yes
Sarah 13 soft silk yes
Fanny 11 Shirring yes
Francis 10 (male) yes
Matthew 8 yes
Margaret 5 yes
Elizabeth 8mths yes
HO107 131 7 10 15

So back to my actual question if you're still awake!!
I am trying to find the parents of James Dean B about 1795-1799 in Chapel en le frith.
I have investigated 3 different scenarios over time and I would really appreciate your expert opinions on which are the most likely:
1. Years ago I was told by a distant relative who was also tracing our ancestry that James was illegitimate born to Ann Dean and that he had a baptism document dated 1799 from Chapel en le frith saying James was a bastard child of Ann Dean. But I have never found any evidence of this record,  although I have found an Ann Dain baptised at Chapel en le frith in 1780, her father was Ralph Dain.

2. Derbysderek on Rootschat had also very kindly tried to help someone else a few years back on this same search problem, Derek had added this info:

Your family were born at Mellor..next village to Chapel en le Frith.
James Dean married Ann Stafford at GLOSSOP 07.04.1795 - (presumably James parents)
They had the following children at Mellor (lived at Chapel en le frith)
GEORGE DEAN 17.08.1801
JAMES DEAN 08.06.1802 (presumably my James Dean who I think was born earlier than this)
JOSEPH DEAN 19.03.1804..........

Name:   James Dean
Gender:   Male
Baptism Date:   8 Jun 1802
Baptism Place:   Mellor,Derby,England
Father:   James Dean
Mother:   Anne
FHL Film Number:   428926, 498104

3. I think this is the most likely information. Certainly due to the fact that on James's son Francis marriage cert there are two witnesses with the surname Lowe.
That his parents were Charles Dean and Fanny Lowe, I have found this:
Name - Jas Dean
Gender Male Baptism Date24/02/1799
Baptism Place-st Michael,MacClesfield,Cheshire,England
Father Chas Dean
Mother Fanney
FHL Film Number942.71 M1 V27

Charles and Fanney got married in Prestbury in 1798:
Name Charles Dean GenderMale Marriage Date25 Jun 1798 Marriage Place Prestbury, Cheshire, England Spouse Fanny Lowe FHL Film Number1751960

The problem I have with scenario 3 is that I cannot find any association at all with chapel en le frith, even though James always had on every census until 1881 that he was born there.
Charles and Fanney are married in prestbury Cheshire in 1798 and their son James was baptised in Macclesfield, Cheshire in 1799.

If anyone is able to help me I would be eternally grateful. I feel like I've hit a brick wall and just don't know which way to investigate with all my might!!

I apologise for the amount of information on this, but I hope that it helps someone to help me.

Thank you
Suzanne

Online sarah

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Re: James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith
« Reply #1 on: Monday 24 August 20 11:00 BST (UK) »
Hello Suzanne,

I have just moved your topic to the family history beginneers section to see if anyone can help.

Regards

Sarah :)
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Offline SUZANNE180

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Re: James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith
« Reply #2 on: Monday 24 August 20 13:57 BST (UK) »
Thank you Sarah, your help is very much appreciated, I did wonder where I should post it, so general family history questions should be here, rather than under a specific County Forum?
Than you again Suzanne


Offline goldie61

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Re: James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 01:52 BST (UK) »
Several other posts on Rootschat over the years.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=565638.0

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=607376.0

plus other bits (hard to tell if it's the same poster)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline SUZANNE180

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Re: James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 08:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Goldie61.

Thank you very much for your reply. I appreciate your links.
Yes I have seen those posts from 2011/2012, hence the reason I signed up to Rootschat.
'alanfrank' was my distant relative who has since sadly passed away. He contacted me via Ancestry back then.
He was the one who suggested to me that James Dean born Chapel en le frith was illegitimate, born of Ann Dean. But I have no proof of this.
I am looking for James Deans parents.

I believe that his parents were Charles Dean and Fanny Lowe, having found this baptism in Macclesfield:
Name - Jas Dean
Gender Male Baptism Date24/02/1799
Baptism Place-st Michael,MacClesfield,Cheshire,England
Father Chas Dean
Mother Fanney

The problem I have is that I cannot find any association at all with chapel en le frith, even though James said on every census until 1881 that he was born there.
Charles Dean and Fanney Lowe are married in prestbury Cheshire in 1798 and their son James was baptised in Macclesfield, Cheshire in 1799.

I am keen on this scenario as when James's son Francis Dean married Ann rowbotham in 1850 there are two witnesses with the surname Lowe.

Its just the Chapel en le frith connection that I cannot find. Do you think that I am on the right track please due to the Lowe witnesses?
If anyone has any suggestions or advice I would be very grateful indeed.
Suzanne.

Offline Ray T

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Re: James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 09:33 BST (UK) »
Can’t help much at the moment as I’m sitting with a very shaky internet connection at a very wet Sandringham.

I assume you realise that Chapel is in Derbyshire and Macclesfield/Rainow etc are in Cheshire. I believe that the cHapel parish records were destroyed in a fire many years ago.

Incidentally, as a resident of Chapel, I wouldn’t call Mellor “the next village”. Mellor is part of Stockport (Greater Manchester) and largely unrelated to Chapel.

Yiu might like to have a look here - http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~dusk/genealogy/chapel-e-l-f.htm

Offline trish1120

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Re: James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 10:27 BST (UK) »
FreeREG also has only Chapel-en-le-Frith Marriages, just a few of them under DEAN.
But there is a gap from 1748-1810

Also under DAIN or Daine there are more.

There are no Bapts or Burials under any spelling on there.

Trish :)
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Offline SUZANNE180

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Re: James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 25 August 20 23:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Ray T
Thank you very much for your reply and assistance.
Yes I do appreciate the geography as I live not far away in Congleton.
Certainly makes some sense that I cannot find any info if the records were lost for Chapel.
I really didn't pay much attention to the Mellor connection suggestion.
I am very appreciative of your link and I will certainly check it out.
Also thank you Trish, for your help.
I am still keen on the info I have regarding Charles Dean and Fanney Lowe. Even though its not Chapel. Due to the witnesses on Francis Deans marriage cert.
Thank you all so much for taking the time to help me. I will check out the link that Ray sent me  :)
I don't know at all, but it could be a fact that James was born in Chapel en le Frith for whatever reason and that he was indeed baptised in Macclesfield.

Please do let me know if your experience tells me I am wrong!

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: James Dean B 1795-1799 Chapel en Le frith
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 26 August 20 07:53 BST (UK) »
Sorry no help with James Dean's baptism  ???

What was the name of Margaret's parents?

Was Sarah Ann Dean the first child of James & Margaret?

Did they follow a naming pattern for their children?

Example: -

The first son named after the paternal grandfather
The second son  named after the maternal grandfather
The third son named after the father etc....

The first daughter named after the maternal grandmother
The second daughter named after the paternal grandmother
The third daughter named after the mother etc...