Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932 - Question

[heywood]

Boo,
Well done on that detailed and difficult research.

Heywood

[Terri Kessler]

Agreed!  She did a great job! 

[Terri Kessler]

Hi!

I am still a little confused on the Marriages and Banns vs the License and the Allegation. No proof of age was required for the marriage bann yet the husband, Joseph Riley applies for a License saying both were 21 years and upwards. Was there not a penalty for lying on the license?

Liverpool England, Church of England Marriages and Banns 1754-1935:
Joseph William Riley, age 21, Mariner, Warburton Street, Father: Christopher Riley, Fruiter deceased
Catherine Stewart, age 21, Islington, Father: William Stewart, Poulterer

Marriage by License and Allegation issued 09/25/1879 both signed stating they were 21 years of age. 

Catherine’s birthdate is abt 1862/1863 born in Perth, Scotland but burial record shows 1864 - 1920. She would have been roughly 16 when married?

As always, thank you for your help!

[Tickettyboo]

Marriage by Banns
The Banns were called in the church for 3 consecutive Sundays - if the bride and groom lived in different parishes they were called in both churches.
In which case if there was a reason that they should not be married the thinking was that the local community would be aware and could object.

Marriage by Licence
Historically, as well as paying for a licence the applicant had to sign a bond which stated that there was a (hefty) penalty if the information they gave was deliberately misleading.Though other researchers may have done I haven't yet come across a case where the bond penalty was enforced.

The bonds were discontinued after 1823.
https://www.york.ac.uk/media/borthwick/documents/5marriagebonds.pdf


There may still have been a penalty of some sort for not giving correct info by the time Joseph and Catherine married depending on what they had fibbed about , but as ever, if no one ever found out no penalty would be levied :-)

Do you have Catherine's birth record or have her on a census in Scotland with her parents when she was very young? Does her age tally with what she declared on later census returns?

Boo

[Terri Kessler]

Boo, 

I have the 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 England Census Records which say she was born 1862/1863. Her burial record shows a birth date of 1864.  She died in 1920 at age 56 years. I did just order a copy of her death certificate.  I do not have any Scotland census records for Catherine as I could not find any.  I did find on Scotland’s People, a Catherine Stewart born April 8, 1862 in Perth, Perth, Scotland to William Stewart, Railway Guard and Christina Stewart (maiden name is Malloch) but have not been able to confirm for certain. Her father on the marriage bann in 1879 says William Stewart was a Poulterer. In the 1881 English Census Record (Age 19 and married)  for Catherine Riley, it says she was a Poultry Dealer.

Terri

[Tickettyboo]

Father's occupation of Railway Guard on her birth and Poulterer on her marriage is 'possible' but I'd be looking for alternatives to see if there was a better fit.

Boo

[Tickettyboo]

Hi Terri

Pleased to see that Marienne was able to help with the people buried in the same grave as Joseph and that you have now seen that info. Hopefully this may help to confirm that Joseph died in 1925 as I thought.
Link for anyone else who is looking:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=651292.msg7009972#msg7009972

The Margaret Guy who died 1936 was on the workhouse records for Joseph as his sister and I looked in the old newspapers and found this which may be of interest

Liverpool Echo 07 Dec 1936, page 7 col 7
GUY - December 3, at the residence of her son. 31 Connaught-road, in her 81st year. MARGARET, widow of John H Guy and beloved mother of E. McGovern. R.I.P. Interment at Ford Cemetery tomorrow (Tuesday) at 3 p.m.

Can't see any death notices for the other people, sorry.

Margaret Riley died Liverpool Workhouse buried 28 Jun 1889, age 81
I looked in the workhouse records and there is a 'possible' record for a lady of this name:

Admitted 01 Nov 1886, age 79, Margaret Riley of 3 Dawson St, religion RC, name of nearest relative Mrs Doyle, same address. Margaret was admitted to the "Infirm' Ward and died 25 Jun 1889

A Margaret Riley was recorded at that address in 1881 as a 73 year old visitor, born Dublin, occupation Fruit Hawker, the other occupants were a Michael and Margaret Doyle.
Piece 3628/folio38/page1

Not writ in stone, but worth investigating further.

Boo

[Tickettyboo]

Boo, 

 I did find on Scotland’s People, a Catherine Stewart born April 8, 1862 in Perth, Perth, Scotland to William Stewart, Railway Guard and Christina Stewart (maiden name is Malloch) but have not been able to confirm for certain.

Terri

Have you seen this entry in the deaths register? It sheds a great deal of doubt on that birth record being your Catherine:-(
Stewart, Catherine, age 0, mmn Malloch, 1862 387/280 Perth.


Boo

[Terri Kessler]

Thank you Boo!  A lot to look at and review! 

There is another Catherine Stewart on Ancestry and Scotland’s People for this Catherine Stewart, however her father is again listed as a Railway Guard

Name:    Catherine Stewart
Gender:    Female
Birth Date: 3 Mar 1865
Birth Place: Perth,Perth,Scotland
Father:   William Stewart
Mother:   Christina Malloch
FHL Film Number:   6035516

I am waiting on her death record so hopefully this will shed some more light on it.

It’s exciting to understand my ancestors stories!

Much thanks!! 😊