Author Topic: Baptism vs Christening  (Read 1739 times)

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Baptism vs Christening
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 08 August 20 15:51 BST (UK) »
Baptism as an "adult" - that is, old enough to understand what you are promising, was an important part of at least earlier Baptist Chapel rituals. Usually by total immersion, I think.
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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Baptism vs Christening
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 08 August 20 15:58 BST (UK) »
They are one and the same, in essence the welcoming of a child into the family of the church.
There was a lot of superstition in days gone by that  to my certain knowledge
lingered into the 1950’s.
Often you hear the term “  unchrisomed child “  ie not Christened.
Would it go to heaven or stay in Limbo?
Baptism follows when John The Baptist symbolically washed away sins in the River Jordan,notably Jesus .
In the Service in the Church of England the Minister says “ I baptise thee—-.
Christening is the lay person’s term often but both involve blessings, naming, renouncing sin The Church has it we are all born in sin!!!
The water is the symbolic washing away if that sin.
The naming part is really secondary.,well to the minister but not to the parents for example .
Perhaps The Baptist Church,where total immersion is practiced uses  Baptism  all the time whereas you do hear Christening  used in the C of E.
EViktoria.

sYs

Some Vicars obviously though Baptism & Christening were two different things there are a number of entries showing baptisms & christenings for the same child at Bottesford and in other parish registers across the country.
Here are just two examples from the Bottesford, Leicestershire register.

11 April 1798 Thomas son of Demetrius Judson & Ann labourer Baptised at Long Bennington, Christened at Bottesford  Apr 12 1798  born 18 Sep 1797

29 Apr 1798 Zebedee son of William Hallam and Elizabeth Baptised and Christened Apr 29 1798 born 4 Apr 1798

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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Baptism vs Christening
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 08 August 20 16:30 BST (UK) »
I cannot speak for other Denominations, but the Church of England will accept that ANY Christian may baptise another person if there is a danger or belief that the person might die without. 


Catholic Church: "In imminent danger of death ... when no priest or deacon is available, any member of the faithful, indeed anyone with the right intention, may and sometimes must administer baptism"
(Rite of Baptism, No. 16)
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Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Baptism vs Christening
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 08 August 20 16:42 BST (UK) »
I cannot speak for other Denominations, but the Church of England will accept that ANY Christian may baptise another person if there is a danger or belief that the person might die without. 


Catholic Church: "In imminent danger of death ... when no priest or deacon is available, any member of the faithful, indeed anyone with the right intention, may and sometimes must administer baptism"
(Rite of Baptism, No. 16)

My mother-in-law, a Roman Catholic, was told by her priest that she could baptise my baby son, her grandson, herself, by taking a little Holy Water from the Church and carrying out a small ceremony.  This was not dependent on my son's health at the time.

I wanted both my children to make the choice to be baptised into the Christian Church if they chose to do so, and therefore my son had not been christened (and neither was my daughter).

My mother-in-law incautiously told me that this was what her priest had said, and I told her that we, as parents, strongly disapproved.  I respect others' religious views, but if a religion states a baby is condemned to Limbo, a dreadful place, if not baptised, then I question that religious statement and urge adherents to do the same.

However, my son and I have always wondered whether he was 'done' on the kitchen table whilst I wasn't looking.

I am glad to hear Heywood's comment that Limbo is not now part of Catholic teaching.
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Online Viktoria

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Re: Baptism vs Christening
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 08 August 20 16:51 BST (UK) »
I wonder if the two different ones are
a) Church of England
b) Non Conformist
Or the other way round .
However Baptist’s believe that it is an adult decision and the person needs to know and appreciate exactly what is happening so only adult Baptisms there.
Especially as Baptists as I and someone else said,require total immersion .
Marriages were another sort of case, C of E were considered the “strongest”
among Protestants ,so there there might have been two,Cof E and a Methodist or Baptist one if the couple were among those following Methodist and Baptist breakaway religions.
Just surmising.
Viktoria.



Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Baptism vs Christening
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 08 August 20 17:49 BST (UK) »
IgorStrav. There are questions from people like your mother-in-law on Catholic Answers website. "Can I baptise my granddaughter?", "Can I baptise my nephew?" &c.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/can-we-have-our-granddaughter-baptized-if her-parents-wont
"Unless in danger of death canon law does not allow you to have her baptised against both her parents' will".
Your m-i-l's priest may have been operating according to a different  (or his own) interpretation of canon law.
New Commentary on the Code of Canon Law published 2000.
There is a distinction between a valid and a "licit" baptism.
Edit. Link doesn't work but the post exists. 
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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Baptism vs Christening
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 08 August 20 19:45 BST (UK) »
I have just checked the original record as I noticed an issue in my transcript where due to an interlineation I copied the entry wrong it should read
Sarah, Daughter of William Ravell (by Hannah his wife) born Sept 18th, baptized 7th Oct 1797 at Long Bennington, and Christened at Bottesford April 12th 1798.

The churches in question were two C of E churches
Cheers
Guy
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Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Baptism vs Christening
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 08 August 20 22:06 BST (UK) »
IgorStrav. There are questions from people like your mother-in-law on Catholic Answers website. "Can I baptise my granddaughter?", "Can I baptise my nephew?" &c.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/can-we-have-our-granddaughter-baptized-if her-parents-wont
"Unless in danger of death canon law does not allow you to have her baptised against both her parents' will".
Your m-i-l's priest may have been operating according to a different  (or his own) interpretation of canon law.
New Commentary on the Code of Canon Law published 2000.
There is a distinction between a valid and a "licit" baptism.
Edit. Link doesn't work but the post exists.


Thank you very much Maiden Stone, for the clarification.

I have no idea whether she carried out her informal baptism on the kitchen table - my son (now nearly 30) says he doesn't feel different either way.

But I think I was fairly forthright in my expression of what I thought about her proposal.
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
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Kesneer Belgium/East London
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Offline robbo43

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Re: Baptism vs Christening
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 08 August 20 23:03 BST (UK) »
I think it all depends on which religious denomination you belong to, local traditions and quite possibly the phase of the moon or which way the wind is blowing. You pays your money and you take your choice.
I was bought up in a nonconformist, largely Baptist, tradition. As far as I am concerned christening is a naming ceremony whilst (adult) baptism (complete immersion) marks your entry into the church at an age when you can understand and accept the beliefs. A friend of mine who is a CofE lay preacher is horrified by this heresy and insists that baptism is a ceremony introducing someone into the church and that this is confirmed when they enter the church at an age when they are supposed to be able to understand the implications.
My stepchildren were dedicated in a Baptist church, that is as babies they were introduced to the congregation who promised to help bring them up in the Christian tradition and guard over them.
In practice the two terms are nowadays probably completely interchangeable
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