Author Topic: Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)  (Read 696 times)

Offline rofe2028

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Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)
« on: Monday 10 August 20 07:11 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

Lilly Irene ROFE (b. 14/12/1907, Footscray VIC), eldest child of Albert Frederick ROFE and Sarah James ROFE (nee BRERETON), left home around 1923 after a disagreement with her father.  Apart from a sighting at a train station a couple of years later, it appears that her family never saw her again.

In 1939 Lilly (or "Lily", according to the spelling on the marriage certificate) married a Charles EDMUNDS at Gilgandra NSW.  Charles was the eldest son of William EDMUNDS and Johanna EDMUNDS (nee RINDFLEISH) of Gulargambone NSW.  Anecdotal evidence from a sister-in-law of Lily's in 1996 indicates that Charles and Lily EDMUNDS left the area in 1940.  It is at this point that Lily seems to drop off the radar.

Anecdotal evidence from a younger sister (who was born after Lily had left home) has it that her mother told her that Lily had died in Sydney in 1947, but I haven't been able to find any conclusive evidence of this.  Charles EDMUNDS died in Sydney in 1968, so it would appear that there was a move to Sydney at some point.  However, Charles' death notice refers to him as the husband of "Neta" (whom I have established as Neta Mary ABBOTT, nee NEAVES), and electoral rolls establish Charles and Neta as having lived at the same Sydney address for many years.  His death certificate gives his conjugal status as "Never Married", and lists no children.  Neta died in Sydney in 1970.

I haven't been able to find any records relating to Lily post-1939.  It would appear that Charles and Lily separated at some point, and it may be that Lily changed her name, moved interstate or overseas, or that for some reason her death was unrecorded.

Id appreciate if any of the sleuths on this site can help solve the mystery of what became of Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE), or if anyone with knowledge of the EDMUNDS or ABBOTT families can assist.

Thanks  :)
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Offline majm

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Re: Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 11 August 20 05:48 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Welcome,

May I please ask some questions,  perhaps rhetorical, but hopefully to help your quest.

From the NSW BDM marriage registration record only ... did the bride's info that she provided about her origins match up with your known info? (Her birth place, her age, her occupation, her mum's maiden name, her dad's name and occupation, etc) ... so form a picture of her person ... truthful,  ....  look at the witnesses ... could any of them have a connection to her earlier life ... and perhaps their living descendants may know more about her life after 1940....

JM
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Offline rofe2028

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Re: Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 11 August 20 07:17 BST (UK) »
Hi JM,

Thanks for your reply, very pertinent questions/suggestions.

The age for Lily on her marriage certificate is out by a couple of years, and her name is spelled "Lily" (whereas her birth certificate has it as "Lilly" with the double-L).  However, her place of birth and her parents' names and occupations are spot-on, and I have no doubt that it is the same Lily Irene ROFE born to my great-grandparents in 1907.

The witnesses on the marriage certificate were a Stanley EDMUNDS and a T. M. EDMUNDS, younger brother and sister-in-law to the groom, both now deceased.  I'm hoping to make contact with living descendants of the EDMUNDS family of Gulargambone NSW who might have more information.

Thanks :)
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 11 August 20 23:31 BST (UK) »
Although the details of Charles EDMUND's death certificate state "never married and no issue" this may simply be because the informant did not know of his previous marriage.

Possibly also it was an attempt at concealment of his true marital status.

Clearly Charles was not married to Neta Mary ABBOTT.

Was she the informant on the certificate?

Neta's rift  with her husband Arthur Henry ABBOTT, seems to have been between 1958 and 1963 after which time Charles EDMUNDS is with her at 115 Everleigh Street Redfern.

Can you furnish the details of the death certificate please?
Sue
 
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Offline rofe2028

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Re: Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 00:12 BST (UK) »
Thanks Sue,

Interestingly, I have Charles EDMUNDS at the same address as Arthur Henry ABBOTT and Neta Mary ABBOTT (115 Eveleigh Street Redfern) in 1958, courtesy of the 1958 electoral roll for the subdivision of Redfern West.  Perhaps he started off with them as a lodger?

According to the death certificate (NSW BDM, Reg. No. 40403/1968), Charles died on 11/10/1968 at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Camperdown.  The informant is an L. McIntosh, a clerk of the hospital, so unfortunately that doesn't help.

Charles' surname is spelled "EDMONDS" on the certificate, his birthplace is given as Gulargambone rather than Gulgong, and his mother's maiden name is spelled "Rhineflash" rather than "Rindfleish", but it is clearly the same Charles EDMUNDS who married Lily Irene ROFE in 1939.  His usual residence is listed as 115 Eveleigh Street Redfern.

I've attached a copy of his death notice from the SMH on 12/10/1968.  The names of his brothers and sisters-in-law as listed in the notice are definitely a match.
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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 00:51 BST (UK) »

Do you have death certificates for -
Albert Frederick ROFE

Sarah James ROFE (nee BRERETON)

to see how their children are recorded .....maybe as (dec)

Offline rofe2028

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Re: Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 02:24 BST (UK) »
Thanks wivenhoe,

I've already been down that path, and unfortunately the death certificates for Lily's parents don't help much.

On the death certificate for her father (Albert Frederick ROFE, d. 08/11/1947), Lily and two of her younger siblings are listed as deceased, and the deaths of the younger two are verified facts.  However, given the falling-out between Lily and her father, and in the absence of any other solid evidence regarding her death, I'm not convinced that her deceased status on her father's death certificate can be taken at face value.  It does, however, fit in with the story her mother told another sibling many years later (ie. that Lily had died in Sydney in 1947).

Interestingly, on the death certificate for her mother (Sarah James ROFE nee BRERETON, d. 25/02/1956) Lily is not listed at all.  All of the other siblings are listed, including the two other deceased siblings.
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Offline majm

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Re: Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 04:30 BST (UK) »
Re Lily's dad's d.c. .... who was the informant .... and in your judgement, how reliable would their knowledge be re if Lily was deceased at that time..... if it is her mum who was informant, I would suggest it may be reliable.   

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline rofe2028

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Re: Looking for Lily Irene EDMUNDS (nee ROFE)
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 04:47 BST (UK) »
Thanks JM, good thinking.

Unfortunately, Lily's father was killed at work in a shunting accident at the North Geelong railyards, and the informant listed on the death certificate is the police officer who was deposed at his inquest.  I have a copy of the inquest, but it only refers to one child (Gladys Isabel SMITH nee ROFE, a younger sister to Lily), and only because she was the one who attended to identify his body.

Yup, stymied at every turn... you can see why the fate of Lily remains elusive to this day.
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