Author Topic: Confirmation of a Scottish will also 'sealed' in London  (Read 202 times)

Offline GordonFindlay

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Confirmation of a Scottish will also 'sealed' in London
« on: Wednesday 12 August 20 08:32 BST (UK) »
I've found records of a relative's estate.

He died on 7 Jan 1933; three executors were a lawyer, an accountant and a brother. He was reasonably well off: the 1933 value of the estate was Quid 66990, which is the equivalent of half a million pounds in 2020.

The first record shows the usual confirmation at Aberdeen, recorded in the Calendar of Confirmations and Inventories.

But that will is also recorded as 'sealed' in the Calendar of the Grants of Probate and Letters of Administration made in the Probate Registries of the High Court of Justice in England. London, England.

Any idea why this Scottish will would be dealt with twice, in two different legal systems?

[I haven't seen the will - is there anywhere I might be able to, given that I am in NZ - a wee way from Aberdeen.]
Findlay - Aberdeen, Angus
Shepherd - Angus
Cargill  - Angus
Melvin - Aberdeen
Coull - Angus, Aberdeen
Strachan - Kincardine, Aberdeen
Steven, Steen. Stein, Dunsmore, Burt, Prentice, Maxwell, Montgomery  - Lanark

Offline josey

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Re: Confirmation of a Scottish will also 'sealed' in London
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 08:50 BST (UK) »
I suspect he must have had property in both countries, either financial or physical.

Wills from England are available for GBP 1.50 online from https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate, Scotland from Scotlands People [I don't know the available dates you'll have to check].
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/legal-records

ADDED: I see this on SP:
Wills registered after 1925
Wills registered between 1925 and 1997 have not been digitised and may only be consulted in the Historical Search Room at the National Records of Scotland.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 said to be nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline GordonFindlay

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Re: Confirmation of a Scottish will also 'sealed' in London
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 09:25 BST (UK) »
Thanks. The man if Alfred Melvin, d. 7 Jan 1933 in Aberdeen.

I cannot see the will through the English search site - not found.

Findlay - Aberdeen, Angus
Shepherd - Angus
Cargill  - Angus
Melvin - Aberdeen
Coull - Angus, Aberdeen
Strachan - Kincardine, Aberdeen
Steven, Steen. Stein, Dunsmore, Burt, Prentice, Maxwell, Montgomery  - Lanark


Online Forfarian

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Re: Confirmation of a Scottish will also 'sealed' in London
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 09:33 BST (UK) »
Any idea why this Scottish will would be dealt with twice, in two different legal systems?
Standard practice if someone domiciled in Scotland dies owning heritable property in England and Wales; the confirmation granted by the Scottish courts is sealed in England or Wales.

(Note that the term 'probate' is meaningless in Scots Law - the corresponding process in Scotland is 'confirmation'.)

The converse also applies - a probate granted by an English, Welsh or (pre-1922?) Irish court is sealed in Scotland if the deceased owned heritable property in Scotland. It is a sensible arrangement whereby the courts in the four countries accepted the outcome of the process in the others, avoiding the need to go through the whole thing more than once.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Online Forfarian

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Re: Confirmation of a Scottish will also 'sealed' in London
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 09:37 BST (UK) »
I cannot see the will through the English search site - not found.
Are you using the correct English search site - https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar ? I just looked there and immediately found the listing in 1933. This is also where you order copies of English probates.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline GordonFindlay

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Re: Confirmation of a Scottish will also 'sealed' in London
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 10:05 BST (UK) »
Forfarian -  many thanks. Once again your expertise shines!

Slainte
Gordon
Findlay - Aberdeen, Angus
Shepherd - Angus
Cargill  - Angus
Melvin - Aberdeen
Coull - Angus, Aberdeen
Strachan - Kincardine, Aberdeen
Steven, Steen. Stein, Dunsmore, Burt, Prentice, Maxwell, Montgomery  - Lanark

Online arthurk

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Re: Confirmation of a Scottish will also 'sealed' in London
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 11:37 BST (UK) »
The first time I came across a situation like this I rang the Principal Probate Registry to ask about it. They told me that the sealing in London wasn't much more than a rubber-stamp exercise, and any papers they could supply wouldn't tell me any more than could be deduced from the index.

That was in the days when copies of English wills etc cost 10. Now that it's only 1.50 I might be tempted to order a copy anyway just to check that this is correct - particularly in a case like this where getting hold of more information from Scotland is going to be much more difficult and/or expensive.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Millmoor

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Re: Confirmation of a Scottish will also 'sealed' in London
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 August 20 12:13 BST (UK) »
I thought I was being clever trying to obtain a will for my mother's uncle. He died in Glasgow in 1950 but appears in the probate calendar as sealed in London. It was a waste of 1.50 applying as the reply was to the effect that they did not hold the will.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)