Author Topic: James Turner  (Read 273 times)

Offline dsjturner

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
James Turner
« on: Saturday 15 August 20 14:30 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

Iím trying to find out more about my great grandfather, James Turner, but Iím getting a little confused, so I thought someone maybe might be able to help me.
I know his name was James Turner and he was from Galashiels, but settled in London after he served in WW1. I have his marriage certificate and he was married in London in 1915 and his father is listed as John Turner, a tanner who was alive when he married. It states his age as 36 which would leave his birth year as 1879. I also have his medal with his regiment number engraved on the back and Iíve been lucky to find some documents about his service. He was discharged in 1918 due to sickness and it lists his age as 39.3 which would again put his year of birth as 1879.
My problem is I found a record of a James turner being born, with a father called John who was a skinner in Galashiels but the year of birth is 1874. I know people lied about their age upon enlistment but I donít see any reason why he would need to as he was certainly within the age range. When I search for births in 1879 for James turner with a father called John I donít find much at all.
I know that the marriage certificate and military records definitely relate to him and they both lead me to a birth  in 1879, yet the only credible record i can find is 1874. I wonder if anyone could make any sense out of this?!
Thanks in advance for your help.
Daniel
Seabrook and Doggett Abbots langley, Herts
Robinson, Oxford
Fryer and Bates, Penn, Bucks
French, Oldbury, Worcestershire
Turner and Cunningham Galashiels, Scotland
Barrs, Leicstershire/London

Offline dsjturner

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: James Turner
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 15 August 20 14:50 BST (UK) »
I just remembered I have his death certificate, again I know itís him as it was quite an unusual death and the family still talk about it. Anyway he died in 1938 and it states his age as 65, which would put his birth year as 1873/1874.
Seabrook and Doggett Abbots langley, Herts
Robinson, Oxford
Fryer and Bates, Penn, Bucks
French, Oldbury, Worcestershire
Turner and Cunningham Galashiels, Scotland
Barrs, Leicstershire/London

Offline Pennines

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,418
    • View Profile
Re: James Turner
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 15 August 20 14:54 BST (UK) »
Have you found him on the Scottish census records please?

The only one I can see is the one born c.1874, who was a Baker by trade. Unless I'm missing him there doesn't seem to be a James with a father John on census records who was born c 1879.

Just why he should understate his age on enlistment I have no idea.

Whilst writing this - I see you have his death certificate which again confirms an 1874 (ish) birth.
West Yorks; ---- Illingworth, Marshall, Muffit/Muffett/Murfitt, Barber, Sanderson, Townend, Barraclough, Lister -- and lots more. Locations mainly in Birstall parish - Hartshead-- Drighlington --Adwalton --Mirfield - Heckmondwike --Kippax - Sherburn in Elmet.

Ireland ------Cleary, Whelan - Nenagh.
Dowling - Monasterevin
Daly - Westmeath

Lancashire ---- Smith from Alston , Johnson and Fairclough---- Tarleton and loads more from Tarleton and Accrington areas.


Offline dsjturner

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: James Turner
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 15 August 20 15:04 BST (UK) »
Hi!

Thanks for the reply! I looked on Scotlandís people and found who I believed to be him born in 1874 and all the other details matched up with that entry. The two other documents made me think that Iíd got the wrong person and that he was born in 1879, but I just had a brain wave. I did a quick google and enlistment for men in 1914 was between the ages of 18- 38. I hadnít considered he may have been too old as being born in 1874 he would have been 40 in 1914! Maybe the 1874 James is him and he lied about his age to appear younger. His marriage certificate lists him as a baker also, so Iím leaning towards that theory now!
Seabrook and Doggett Abbots langley, Herts
Robinson, Oxford
Fryer and Bates, Penn, Bucks
French, Oldbury, Worcestershire
Turner and Cunningham Galashiels, Scotland
Barrs, Leicstershire/London

Offline ev

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 7,849
  • Drumkilbo
    • View Profile
Re: James Turner
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 15 August 20 15:28 BST (UK) »
Parents John Turner and Ann Cunningham ?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQND-F6T


ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline ev

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 7,849
  • Drumkilbo
    • View Profile
Re: James Turner
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 15 August 20 15:38 BST (UK) »
1881 , 7 Park St , Melrose , Selkirk.
John Turner 31 , skinner , born Galashiels, Selkirk
Annie Turner 31 wife b. Galashiels, Selkirk
Annie Turner 9 daur b. Galashiels, Selkirk
James Turner 7 son b. Galashiels, Selkirk
William Turner 5 son b. Glasgow, Lanark
Betsy Turner 3 daur b. 3 Galashiels, Selkirk
Isabella Turner daur 11m b.Galashiels, Roxburgh


ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline dsjturner

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: James Turner
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 15 August 20 15:41 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your reply! Thatís who believe it is and those are his parents! The ages on his military records and marriage certificate confused me, but I think maybe he lied about his age as he was too old at enlistment
Seabrook and Doggett Abbots langley, Herts
Robinson, Oxford
Fryer and Bates, Penn, Bucks
French, Oldbury, Worcestershire
Turner and Cunningham Galashiels, Scotland
Barrs, Leicstershire/London

Offline Pennines

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,418
    • View Profile
Re: James Turner
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 15 August 20 15:45 BST (UK) »
I agree with you - as initially the upper age limit for enlistment WW1 was 38, but raised later.

His birth is on Scotlands people - in November 1873 as mentioned by Ev. If you haven't seen the certificate it will give you his parents' marriage date (forgive me if you know this).
West Yorks; ---- Illingworth, Marshall, Muffit/Muffett/Murfitt, Barber, Sanderson, Townend, Barraclough, Lister -- and lots more. Locations mainly in Birstall parish - Hartshead-- Drighlington --Adwalton --Mirfield - Heckmondwike --Kippax - Sherburn in Elmet.

Ireland ------Cleary, Whelan - Nenagh.
Dowling - Monasterevin
Daly - Westmeath

Lancashire ---- Smith from Alston , Johnson and Fairclough---- Tarleton and loads more from Tarleton and Accrington areas.

Offline dsjturner

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 265
    • View Profile
Re: James Turner
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 15 August 20 16:19 BST (UK) »

I hate when they lied as it causes us such a headache! Iím sure he lied though, it all fits!
I donít have that certificate yet! I was hoping to get up to Galashiels and look it all up but then we went into lockdown! Iíll add it to my list of certificates to order!
Many thanks!
Seabrook and Doggett Abbots langley, Herts
Robinson, Oxford
Fryer and Bates, Penn, Bucks
French, Oldbury, Worcestershire
Turner and Cunningham Galashiels, Scotland
Barrs, Leicstershire/London