help please - Railway Companies 264th / 1914 Royal Engineers

[jcjc123]

I have the following info,
George Henry Lafford B.1881 D.1926
Service no WR.265327 (incomplete)
Previously served with WR239416
Embarked Theatre War Diary Date from Date to 13.5.17 F & F
Railway Companies 264th Longmoor   
WO 95/4054 4.17 - 11.18
Sapper 1914 Royal Engineers

Firstly I don't understand some of this info - why would he have different service nos & why would one be incomplete?
What is the WO number?
Where can I find records of the 264th railway company?

I have been able to get this info from ancestry, which also shows two docments in the "UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920" but there's not info on where he was, if he was injured, his entry card etc as i've found with other searches.
I'm looking for anything personal basically to him. Can anyone help please?

[MaxD]

What you have looks like a set of notes of a number of pieces of information found on GH Lafford.

His number has been transcribed as incomplete because the transcriber has thought there was a seventh digit and the protocol was to put "incomplete" if that was suspected.  His number is complete as evidenced by the medal roll on which it appears.

You have been lucky with service records before as 60% or so were lost to bombinh in WW2 and it looks as this time you re unlucky.

The "embarked" date must come from some personal /family knowledge as did the Railway company number.

WO 95/4054 is the war diary of a number of Railway Companies, among them is 264 Company:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=WO+95%2F4054&_sd=&_ed=&_hb=.  The dates in the notes and 4054/4 suggest that it was known he was in 264 Company and didn't go overseas until April 1917 or afterwards - his medal card does show he wasn't overseas until after 1915.

Longmoor, the 1915 date and the WO number have obviously been extracted from here:
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-corps-of-royal-engineers-in-the-first-world-war/railway-construction-companies-of-the-royal-engineers/

Two numbers  - he may have been renumbered from another RE branch and there was also there was a renumbering of the Territorial Forces in 1917 but I can't at the moment connect numbers beginning with 2.....  His first number was not a WR (Waterways and Railways) number anyway.
 Back on that later.   See my next post.


So what do you have and is there any more.  Probably not.  The important thing is that nowhere on the military records is his name connected with 264 Company and the specific dates.  Unless this is pure random guesswork on someone's part or family knowledge should first be established.

MaxD

[MaxD]

The WR prefixes were issued to all the transportation troops in 1918 prior to which they all had the number they had on enlistment (with acknowledgements and thanks to TR elsewhere).

MaxD

[jcjc123]

Thank you for this long reply, I really appreciate your taking so much time to help.
In searchign for info on him, i found a local railway museum has been donnated a medal for this chap, though they have no idea when/from whom and have no further info, it does suggest whoever donnated it to them, was aware of his railway connection.
The medal they have says "Medal of 264th Railway Construction Company, Royal Engineers" it's in a spinks (sp?) case, with the obverse, words, "France Belgium" on each side of trumpeter and ? R.E. coat of arms.
At the bottom: "The last post" Reverse, "264th Railway Construction Company. R.E" and in centre  "Presented to SPR G Lafford R.E. 1915-1919"

For me that confirms his railway company connection.
The longlong trail site shows 264th embarked date 13.5.17 and F&F from 4.17 to 11.18.
I can't see how he can embark in the may, but be in F&F the month before.
Unless he embarked in 1917 but went to F&F 1918?     

You mention his medical card showing he was overseas after 1915 so i'm guessing the difference might depend which WR number they refer to?
Also you mention WR.265327 is not a waterways and railways number, I hadn't realised that's what WR stood for and actually it would make much more sence that he worked with the waterways, his pre war apprentiship and 10 years working was brickbuilding on the canals.
Would you think he was given his WR number in 1918 when he went to F&F, and if he served in 1917 would have had a different number? That might tie up the anomolies?

For other serving relatives, i've been able to find their sign up card, and further details written on their forces records, next of kin, a description of them, etc but the personal info seems very very light on the ground for this chaps war service, I thought perhaps i was just looking in the wrong place.

Do you think i'd get more info if i subscribed to the forces war records site, (they keep emailing me 'great offers' )or is this likely to be all there is?

[MaxD]

As I suspected, the info comes not from the records initially but from the medal which is a commemorative medal rather than a service medal, nothing wrong with that!

 It is the lack of a 1914/1915 Star that indicates that he didn't go overseas until after the end of 1915, he had the British War and Victory medals, nothing to do with the number. 

I had corrected my earlier post about the number and introduced a little confusion.  He would have started with the 239416 number which did not have the WR prefix but he could well have been in the transportation branch (which covered waterways and railways).  He later, 1918, received the WR number with all the other transportation branch men.

The longlong trail site shows 264th embarked date 13.5.17 and F&F from 4.17 to 11.18.  LLT just gives the date, 13 May 1917, of the company going to France and the diary start date, mid April 1917.   The dates 4 17 to 11 18 are the overall dates of the two war diaries of the company (see my link to National Archives before) .


Looking at men near him on the medal award roll, I find men joining in 1915, because of their employment being sent home but on the reserve and then being called back later. A man with a number near to his went to France in April 1917.

You won't get any more than you have already from Forces War Records.

The commemorative medal has helped a great deal.  I would say your man joined perhaps in 1915, was called forward for service in 1917 and went to France in early 1917 with 264 Railway Company.  The war diaries (the link I gave earlier) 4054/8 and 4054/9 can be downloaded free at present, just have to register.

Brickies would have been v useful in railway construction.

MaxD

[jcjc123]

Thank you again so much, your background knowledge and experience has been invaluable in working out dates for this chap, it's a real shame there's not more personal info, but you've saved me days of work without doubt

[jcjc123]

Just to add incase anyone follows after, i've also found in the UK, WWI Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923, odly listing himself as next of kin with the following info.
Record Type:   Disability
Residence Place:   Gnosall
Military Service Region:   Midlands, England
Service Number:   251513
Corps, Regiment or Unit:   R.E.
Service Branch:   Military (Army)
Title:   PRC Ledgers
Description:   Pension Record Ledger
Reference Number:   6/ML/No.1342

I do not have access to the full document (another paid/premium service) but this transcribed info can be accessed via ancestry subs.
If anyone can guide me on finding out more about that disability i'd appreciate it.

[MaxD]

I can't see the detail either but this is the card for Alfred Daniel Lear another Sapper with numbers 68786 and then WR/251513 - not sure how you tied that to G H Lafford?

MaxD