Author Topic: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?  (Read 1039 times)

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 18 August 20 11:27 BST (UK) »
See the link at reply #4 to see names of siblings.

VIC BDM birth
11297/1866 SCALES Diana Jane  parents Ellen / John  @ Snowy C

VIC BDM death
11952/1939  SAFE  Diana Jane  parents  Ellen HENNESSY /  SCALES John
born Mitta Mitta died Caulfield  age 73

PROV Probate file SCALES Henry d. 4 Oct 1924
names.....William Samuel SCALES, Henrietta LARSEN, Mary Helen SHEEHAN, Diana Jane SAFE and Nathan SCALE.


You need to see the birth certificate for a child born after Henrietta because it will record other issue....earlier births.

Offline majm

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Re: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 18 August 20 11:41 BST (UK) »
On the Vic bdm for Ellen,  is your Henrietta accounted for in Ellen's older siblings?  :)

JM

This would be a document with first hand info from Henrietta's parent who would have been registering Henrietta's younger sister. 

If Henrietta is not accounted for there, then perhaps you should seek out the birth cert for Nathan.... he is likely the youngest child.   

JM
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Offline susiee

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Re: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 18 August 20 11:44 BST (UK) »
Thanks Wivenhoe.
Im not sure  that even seeing her siblings actual  certs  with her name on it would suffice because there is nothing stopping them just writing  her down on the cert  at the time and if she had been  bought in as a baby  and --- implanted --- into the family     its  still no proof  we really need  Hennriettas actual Birth  or Baptism  record


Offline majm

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Re: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 18 August 20 22:21 BST (UK) »
The information provided by the informant on  Vic BDM birth cert or a NSW BDM birth cert includes details about not just the baby whose birth is being registered, but the older babies born to that couple.  It does not include implanted children raised  by that couple.

In that sense, the birth certs are a far more reliable source of family history  info for they include details about the baby's parents, the baby's older siblings, the baby's birthplace,  the midwife/nurse/doctor/witnesses to the birth.  On the other hand the death cert info has a section that includes family history .... so it includes info about either parent their spouse/s and children born within each marriage and is recognised by genealogists as far less reliable as the informant is really only sharing their own imperfect knowledge which, if a family member, is being given at a time of grief. 

A baptism record has scant info and is less reliable than a Victoria or NSW bdm birth cert for 1850s and 1860s.  It does not give details of when/where the baby's parents married, or where/when those parents were born or any details of the baby's older siblings. 

It is important to remember that the rural deputy registrars, in NSW at least  were meant to forward quarterly returns to their head office, but that there was no formal procedure checking up if the returns were not received.  In the 1856-1860s timeframe in NSW, the Royal Mail coaches were often bailed up,  it was not just gold that was taken, but the bills of exchange, land transactions etc.  Quarterly returns for bdm were in with the Land Titles documents, afterall they were all destined for the same Registrar General.  Likely a similar admin system existed in Victoria.

There have been probate cases that relied on proof of birth noted on the youngest childs birth cert as it listed all the older siblings of that child.

JM

Thanks Wivenhoe.
Im not sure  that even seeing her siblings actual  certs  with her name on it would suffice because there is nothing stopping them just writing  her down on the cert  at the time and if she had been  bought in as a baby  and --- implanted --- into the family     its  still no proof  we really need  Hennriettas actual Birth  or Baptism  record


The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline susiee

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Re: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 18 August 20 22:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your message W
Over the years i  have had people   say they are  very confident that  there have been children taken in  by families that have  ended up being included  on certs  as genetically their  own,         probably pretty rare  and still illegal even i the early days  but def happended.    I  think its odd that they have gone to a lot of trouble to  baptise their children in 1852/4/6 in Sydney   except the ones we think were  very early  infant deaths,  but not baptise or register Henrietta.

Offline majm

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Re: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 18 August 20 23:23 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your message W
Over the years i  have had people   say they are  very confident that  there have been children taken in  by families that have  ended up being included  on certs  as genetically their  own,         probably pretty rare  and still illegal even i the early days  but def happended.    I  think its odd that they have gone to a lot of trouble to  baptise their children in 1852/4/6 in Sydney   except the ones we think were  very early  infant deaths,  but not baptise or register Henrietta.

Just because you cannot find the civil birth registration for Henrietta in the late 1850s in either Vic or NSW it does NOT mean that she was implanted into the family.  It only means you have not located an extant record of her actual birth registration.  It is entirely possible that her birth was registered in a rural area of NSW if the parents were in transit to the colony of Victoria.  It is entirely possible that NSW BDM head office Sydney has simply NOT ever processed a quarterly return that included her birth. 

JM
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Offline susiee

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Re: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 19 August 20 00:25 BST (UK) »
Thanks JM -
I obviously do not know but was including it as a possibily only

Offline Nanna52

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Re: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 19 August 20 01:05 BST (UK) »
When my grandfather was born in 1877 near Ballarat in Victoria his oldest brother was 24, so born about 1853.  After many years searching I have not found anything about his birth.  As JM said the Victorian birth certificates are a fantastic source of information.
James -Victoria, Australia originally from Keynsham, Somerset.
Janes - Keynsham and Bristol area.
Heale/Hale - Keynsham, Somerset
Vincent - Illogan/Redruth, Cornwall.  Moved to Sculcoates, Yorkshire; Grass Valley, California; Timaru, New Zealand and Victoria, Australia.
Williams somewhere in Wales - he kept moving
Ellis - Anglesey

Gedmatch A327531

Offline susiee

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Re: Looking Australian birth or baptism record Vic /NSW - any ideas where next .?
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 19 August 20 01:29 BST (UK) »
Thanks Nanna
Agree, and i have nearly all of  them