Author Topic: Searching James Austen McNeill & Father James Joseph County Down  (Read 483 times)

Offline gaffy

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Re: Searching James Austen McNeill & Father James Joseph County Down
« Reply #9 on: Friday 28 August 20 12:48 BST (UK) »
Turning to look at a possible background for Susanna Bennett in that October 1879 marriage to James McCreanor... I have a theory.

Part 1

Susanna's age in the 1879 marriage registration (at Reply #2) indicated birth c. 1857, her residence was Low Road in Lisburn and her father was Hugh Bennett a gardener (alive). Her age in the relevant 1901 census return placed her birth c. 1860:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Clifton/Newport_Street/962417/

And the relevant 1911 census return (at Reply #2) placed her birth c. 1858. So all birth years for her are relatively consistent.

As an aside, I noticed that 10 months before their October 1879 marriage, James McCreanor and Susanna Bennett were witnesses to the marriage of a Hugh Bennett and Alice Neill of Lisburn, critically, Hugh's father was recorded as Hugh Bennett a gardener:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11055/8044329.pdf

Hugh junior's stated age ('full') in that marriage registration indicated birth c. 1858 or before. The relevant 1901 census return indicated his birth c. 1856:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Lisburn/Church_Street/1000913/

So not surprisingly, I'm thinking that Susanna and Hugh Bennett, both born (best guess) in the second half of the 1850s, were siblings. I couldn't readily find baptisms for them, but in looking at marriages for possible parents, the following one caught my eye for reasons which will follow.  In the following record of marriage that took place at Lisburn in May 1849, 21 year old Hugh Bennett of Glasdrumman townland, Magheradrool parish, married 18 year old Barbara Moore of Saintfield parish, Hugh was described as a labourer (no sign of the 'gardener' occupation at this stage), the two fathers were William Bennett and James Moore:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1849/09372/5394277.pdf

I can see transcripts online for the following baptisms of children for that named couple (Hugh Bennett & Barbara Moore):

- Elizabeth Bennett baptised 1850 in St. Anne's Church of Ireland, Belfast;
- Samuel John Bennett baptised 1860 in Donacloney Presbyterian Church;
- William Bennett baptised 1862 in Donacloney Presbyterian Church;
- Emma Bennett baptised 1864 in Donacloney Presbyterian Church;
- James Bennett baptised 1867 in Gilford Presbyterian Church;
- Henry Bennett baptised 1869 in Gilford Presbyterian Church.

The striking thing in that timeline of baptisms, is the big gap between 1850 and 1860 - gardening was sometimes a peripatetic job, so I'm wondering if Hugh and Barbara moved to live somewhere in that 1851-1859 'gap' (associated with Hugh's work), during which they had children including Hugh junior and Susanna, for which the church baptismal records simply aren't online?


Offline gaffy

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Re: Searching James Austen McNeill & Father James Joseph County Down
« Reply #10 on: Friday 28 August 20 12:54 BST (UK) »
Part 2

Continuing on from above, the last three children were born after the introduction of civil registration of births, and the promising feature in the following birth registrations is that the father Hugh was described in all of them as... a gardener, ie.

- Emma:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03620/2336290.pdf
- James:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03502/2287253.pdf
- Henry:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03376/2237517.pdf

Fast forward to 1901, and I believe that this is Hugh Bennett, his wife Barbara (Moore) and daughter Emma (b. 1864) living up in County Londonderry, note his occupation of gardener and the birth place of Co. Down for all 3 of them:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Lower_Liberties/Ballynashallog/1538351/

Hugh died in 1904, the informant of death was his daughter Emma:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05637/4586217.pdf

Here is widowed Barbara (Moore) Bennett and her daughter Emma in 1911 (again note the consistent birth place of Co. Down, as well as the confirmation of 61 years married by Barbara):
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__1_/Epworth_Street/627825/

Barbara (Moore) Bennett died in 1912, Emma Bennett once again was the informant of death:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05351/4490831.pdf

An Emma Bennett died in 1922 with a pretty good match on reported age (56 - the record is available on the GRONI webite on a pay to view basis), and although the death initially put me off since it was registered at Newtownards (which is absolutely nowhere near Londonderry), a local newspaper death notice at the time confirms that she was indeed the same person: BENNETT - January 25, at 3 Hamilton Road, Bangor, Emma, youngest daughter of the late Hugh and Barbara Bennett, Londonderry.  Funeral private.

But the most intriguing part is that while Emma didn't leave a will, just take a look at the name of the person that administration of her estate was granted to, in the following entry from the PRONI Will Calendars: Administration of the Estate of Emma Bennett late of 3 Hamilton Road Bangor County Down Spinster who died 25 January 1922 granted at Belfast to Susan McCrainor Married Woman Effects £68 10s. 5d.

If you want to get a sense of how common the name combinations Emma Bennett and Susan(na) McCrainor/McCreanor were, simply search for them in the 4.4 million entries of the  1901 or 1911 Ireland censuses.  The answer is, very uncommon.

So to conclude, I think it has to be a reasonable speculation that the parents of Susanna Bennett who married James McCreanor in 1879 (and Hugh Bennett who married Alice Neill the same year) were Hugh Bennett and Barbara Moore.


Offline gaffy

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Re: Searching James Austen McNeill & Father James Joseph County Down
« Reply #11 on: Friday 28 August 20 17:14 BST (UK) »
BTW, this is the grave in Derry City Cemetery for Hugh Bennett, his wife Barbara (Moore) and daughter Emma Bennett:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/187922700/hugh-bennett

And I'm speculating that the following is potentially another child born to Hugh Bennett and Barbara Moore in that 1850s 'gap', namely Margaret Ann Bennett born c. 1853 who was living on Low Road Lisburn when she married William Kennedy in 1873:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11270/8133291.pdf

Edited to add: If correct, Margaret Ann would bring the total number of Bennett children to 9, which matches the number of children stated as born to Barbara (Moore) Bennett in the 1911 census return for house 11 Epworth Street (at Reply #10).



Offline Katsy8

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Re: Searching James Austen McNeill & Father James Joseph County Down
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 02 September 20 08:52 BST (UK) »
Wow Gaffy you are simply amazing  :) cannot thank you enough. Am still working on the Pollock line
Figuring out why Mary mcneill nee pollock in Census 1911 Was born in Scotland Iíve found one born in Kilmarnock that fits her age but mothers name given as Anne & father John as a Moulder but her death cert has her father as a shoemaker hmmmm
Huge thanks again for all your incredible efforts
All the best
Kat

Offline gaffy

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Re: Searching James Austen McNeill & Father James Joseph County Down
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 02 September 20 22:49 BST (UK) »

... Am still working on the Pollock line
Figuring out why Mary mcneill nee pollock in Census 1911 Was born in Scotland Iíve found one born in Kilmarnock that fits her age but mothers name given as Anne & father John as a Moulder but her death cert has her father as a shoemaker hmmmm ...


When you're searching for Scottish birth or baptism records for the Mary Pollock who married Hugh McNeill (her father called John Pollock a shoemaker, according to the 1880 marriage registration posted at Reply #1), be on the look-out for children born to parents John Pollock and Mary Ann Elder, for it looks like they are Mary's parents (more below).

Note also that the 'scotlandspeople' website has a Glasgow parish record for a marriage of a John Pollock and Mary Ann Elder on 28 February 1854, the image is 'pay to view'.

There are a couple of Irish births to this couple post civil registration:

- Alexander Pollock in 1866 (note father John's occupation... also the address - Ferry Quay Street in Coleraine - which is the same as that for Mary Pollock at the time of her 1880 marriage to Hugh McNeill):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03512/2291462.pdf (there is an 1866 death registration for someone of that name, registered at Coleraine in Q4, aged 0 - maybe him)

- Jane Riddle Pollock in 1868 (again note the address and the father's occupation):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03423/2255756.pdf

This may be a death for Jane in 1891?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06058/4726843.pdf
 
Then note the following 1901 census return:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Coleraine/Strand_Road_Lower/1518069/

Also note the following death registration for a John Pollock who died on 13 April 1903 on a public road at Macleary (and that there was a coroner's inquest):
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05664/4595290.pdf

There is an article about the death and inquest in the Coleraine Chronicle of 18 April 1903, it's too long to transcribe in full here (pm me if needed), but it includes mention of his wife Mary Ann Pollock, of him having been a bootmaker in Ferry-quay street Coleraine for many years and latterly of Strand Road Coleraine, that he was 'one of the best known and respected of Coleraine's artisan population', the article says that he left the town and returned about 'ten years since', that he was a caretaker of Coleraine Methodist Church, it mentions a niece, Sarah Darragh, a son John Pollock who was a cabinet maker in Glasgow and 'a daughter, the wife of Mr. Hugh McNeill, painter, Belfast, and formerly of Coleraine.'.


Offline gaffy

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Re: Searching James Austen McNeill & Father James Joseph County Down
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 02 September 20 22:58 BST (UK) »

When you're searching for Scottish birth or baptism records for the Mary Pollock who married Hugh McNeill in 1880, be on the look-out for children born to parents John Pollock and Mary Ann Elder, for it looks like they are Mary's parents (more below) ...


The 'familysearch' website shows a number of children born to these named parents in its 'Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950' collection, which fit the timeline between the 1854 Scottish marriage and 1866-68 Irish births I mentioned:

- Jane Pollock b. 30 March 1855 (I'm guessing died early, given the subsequent birth of daughter Jane Riddle Pollock in 1868);
- John Pollock b. 28 September 1856 (presumably the cabinet maker mentioned at Reply #13?);
- Mary Ann Pollock b. 30 March 1860;
- William Pollock b. 5 April 1862;
- Elizabeth Pollock b. 1 May 1864.

All the above records have a Glasgow location. The 'scotlandspeople' website has Mary Ann's birth record, registered at Clyde district (pay to view).  I can see possible Scottish census entries for John (boot / shoe maker) and Mary and children in 1861 (at 12 St. Andrew's Square, Glasgow) and 1881 (at 338 South Wellington Street), so it looks like they moved to and fro several times between Ireland and Scotland.

Edited to add: Some snippets from the Coleraine Chronicle...

10 March 1866
Deaths.
Pollock - At Ferryquay Street, Coleraine, on the 8th instant, Elizabeth, youngest daughter of Mr. John Pollock, aged 1 year and 10 months.


3 July 1880
MARRIAGES.
McNeill and Pollock - At Killowen Parish Church, Coleraine, on the 2nd inst., by the Rev. James Stewart, rector of the parish, Mr. Hugh McNeill, painter, Killowen Street, to Mary, eldest daughter of Mr. John Pollock, boot and shoemaker, Ferry-quay Street, Coleraine.


26 December 1891
DEATHS.
Pollock - At her father's residence, Strand Road, Coleraine, on the 21st inst., Jeannie, beloved daughter of John and Mary Ann Pollock, aged 23 years.



Offline Katsy8

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Re: Searching James Austen McNeill & Father James Joseph County Down
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 03 September 20 12:29 BST (UK) »
All I can say is you are amazing Thankyou sooo much