Hi,
I live in Carmel and am willing to help, if I can.
I'm currently researching the history of the village and am slowly working my way through the Census records.
What I have noticed is that when Llandwrog is given as a place of birth, it refers to the district/area rather than just the village of Llandwrog. So anyone born in Carmel, Cilgwyn or nearby would more than likely be just listed as Llandwrog. On top of that, there is a smaller community called Upper Llandwrog, but that is part of Llandwrog district/area.
As far as I'm aware, the Church of St Thomas mentioned by another poster was Church in Wales. The church has been demolished and the graveyard is pretty overgrown.
There are 2 cemeteries in Carmel, both non-conformist. One is Capel Pisgah and the other is Capel Carmel. There is also an older cemetery but I'm not sure which church/chapel that belonged to. Do you know which religion your relatives belonged to?
I'm happy to have a look at the cemeteries in Carmel for you if that would help but it would be good to know what religion they were as both cemeteries are quite big.
If so, would you mind listing the names and years of birth/death that you are looking for as I've got a bit confused reading through all the posts.
As far as I know Bryntrallwyn and Bryntirion are both in Cilgwyn which is very close by but I have seen them both referred to as being part of Carmel in some records. There are many graves for residents from Cilgwyn, Y Fron and Upper Llandwrog at the cemeteries in Carmel so it looks as though they covered the whole area.
Hi Woostie,
Thanks for your post. I didn’t get the usual notification so I’ve only just seen it.
The birth certificate I received from the GRO was for Jane Jones, born 26th December, 1846, Bryntrallwyn, Llandwrog. Parents David Jones, tailor, and Jane Jones, formerly Hughes. This birth certificate is for the birth my partner, Gareth’s great grandmother.
In a nutshell, I’m trying to find the marriage of David Jones and Jane Hughes, which isn’t proving very successful; I’ve sent for a couple that have been wrong. I want to be sure of the father’s names so I can then hunt for the birth certificates.
They had 4 children:
Margaret b. 1841 d. 1842. Address 1841 was Ty Newydd, Bryntirion
Anne b. 1844.
Jane b. 1846 d. 1940 in Penmaenmawr, living with daughter.
David b. 1849
Address in the ‘51, ‘61 & ‘71 census, Ty Newyddion, Bryntirion. St Thomas parish. In the 1881 census, it is just Bryn Tirion.
The mother, Jane Jones, died on the 20th April 1951, aged 29, and was buried at St Thomas on the 24th April. I’m assuming that she is possibly buried with her daughter, Margaret who died in 1842. If you come across the grave, I’d be thrilled. I got the death certificate yesterday. (#Big Al, do you have these two in your M.I.s?)
Jane’s youngest son, David, is the only one shown with the new family in the 1861 census.
David Jones remarries a Catherine, and has 6 more children:
Mary Jones b. 1853 d. 1895. (marries David Williams)
Catherine Jones b. 1855 d. 1866
Owen Jones b. 1858.
William Lloyd Jones b. 1863 d. 1932 (marries a Catherine Roberts.)
Robert Jones b. 1865
Jane A. Jones b. 1869
I’ve also noticed researching the area that at various times that this area, as you say, is addressed either to Cilgwyn or Carmel.
My primary focus is David Jones & Jane Hughes, and their four children. Things seem to get a bit confusing after David remarries. He stays in the same property, but from the 1881 census, he drops the Jones, and becomes David Lloyd. I’m assuming that this is connected to his own father. His then wife. Catherine, and their children also use Lloyd, and not Jones, although William had already been given the name as a middle name.
I’ve been unable to find baptisms for all the children. Margaret was baptised, but Anne and Jane don’t appear to have been, unless I just haven’t looked in the right place. I wondered if perhaps David Jones was non-conformist but Jane Hughes wasn’t, but I really don’t know which religion they followed.
A David Lloyd died 1884, Bryn Tirion. St Thomas, Llandwrog. A Catherine Lloyd died 1900, Bryn Tirion, again, St Thomas, but David’s wife, Catherine Lloyd is on the 1891 census as a widow, with sons, William & Robert.
There was an issue on FindMyPast with the Llandwrog Parish Records index, which I notified both them and the Gwynedd Archives about, and they confirmed. Some marriage and burial records for St Thomas has been wrongly indexed to Llandegwning.
If you can find anything, I’d be very grateful. I’m disappointed that St Thomas is now a ruin. I was looking forward to going there. I love old chapels, churches & churchyards. Are there any graves still standing?
Apologies if this is no less confusing than previous info I’ve posted. It’s the way I tell ‘em…
I’d love to meet up with you when we can get over, if you’re up for it. I don’t suppose you’d fancy showing Gareth and me around? I won’t be offended if you don’t fancy it, I’ll understand. We’re about an hour away, near Llanrwst.
Thanks again.