Author Topic: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones  (Read 1533 times)

Offline Gadget

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Re: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones
« Reply #45 on: Saturday 29 August 20 11:58 BST (UK) »
Re patronymics - I found this was helpful when I started delving into them

http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/helachau/patronymics.htm4

Thank you for the link, Gadget. Sadly, I canít see the actual file, possibly because Iím not a member of the society. It just give three links to search other genealogy websites such as Ancestry.



It must be a problem at your end as it's an open site that doesn't need membership to access. I don't have to login or anything to access the link.

Click on this link

http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/miscellanea.htm

and then on  Patronymic Paranoia, top right.  It will take you to the link that I gave.

Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline wallbanger

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Re: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones
« Reply #46 on: Saturday 29 August 20 12:19 BST (UK) »
Ah, yes, thanks, Gadget, Iíve got it now.  :)
Reid: Lamington; Glasgow; Dundee.
Parry: Conwy; Gyffin; Penmaenmawr; Dwygyfylchi.
Jones: Llandwrog; Eglwysbach
Davies: Llanrwst; Llansannan; Llanfairtalhaiarn; Llangerniew; Pandy Tudur; Gwytherin; Denbighshire.

Online Tall Al

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Re: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones
« Reply #47 on: Saturday 29 August 20 12:55 BST (UK) »
Hi,

As you have mentioned Tai Newyddion I thought to let you know there are 3 entries in the booklet from 1930's - all relating to Evans families. If you find a connection let me know and i will post details.

This also applies to Trallwyn Terrace which has 4 entries - surnames Williams; Jones (x2) and Ellis.

Alan


Offline wallbanger

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Re: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones
« Reply #48 on: Saturday 29 August 20 13:40 BST (UK) »
Thank you, Alan, I will.
Diolch yn fawr  :)
Reid: Lamington; Glasgow; Dundee.
Parry: Conwy; Gyffin; Penmaenmawr; Dwygyfylchi.
Jones: Llandwrog; Eglwysbach
Davies: Llanrwst; Llansannan; Llanfairtalhaiarn; Llangerniew; Pandy Tudur; Gwytherin; Denbighshire.

Offline Woostie

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Re: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones
« Reply #49 on: Friday 25 September 20 23:19 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I live in Carmel and am willing to help, if I can.

I'm currently researching the history of the village and am slowly working my way through the Census records.

What I have noticed is that when Llandwrog is given as a place of birth, it refers to the district/area rather than just the village of Llandwrog. So anyone born in Carmel, Cilgwyn or nearby would more than likely be just listed as Llandwrog. On top of that, there is a smaller community called Upper Llandwrog, but that is part of Llandwrog district/area.

As far as I'm aware, the Church of St Thomas mentioned by another poster was Church in Wales. The church has been demolished and the graveyard is pretty overgrown.

There are 2 cemeteries in Carmel, both non-conformist. One is Capel Pisgah and the other is Capel Carmel. There is also an older cemetery but I'm not sure which church/chapel that belonged to. Do you know which religion your relatives belonged to?

I'm happy to have a look at the cemeteries in Carmel for you if that would help but it would be good to know what religion they were as both cemeteries are quite big.

If so, would you mind listing the names and years of birth/death that you are looking for as I've got a bit confused reading through all the posts.

As far as I know Bryntrallwyn and Bryntirion are both in Cilgwyn which is very close by but I have seen them both referred to as being part of Carmel in some records. There are many graves for residents from Cilgwyn, Y Fron and Upper Llandwrog at the cemeteries in Carmel so it looks as though they covered the whole area.

 :)

Offline wallbanger

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Re: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones
« Reply #50 on: Sunday 27 September 20 12:14 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I live in Carmel and am willing to help, if I can.

I'm currently researching the history of the village and am slowly working my way through the Census records.

What I have noticed is that when Llandwrog is given as a place of birth, it refers to the district/area rather than just the village of Llandwrog. So anyone born in Carmel, Cilgwyn or nearby would more than likely be just listed as Llandwrog. On top of that, there is a smaller community called Upper Llandwrog, but that is part of Llandwrog district/area.

As far as I'm aware, the Church of St Thomas mentioned by another poster was Church in Wales. The church has been demolished and the graveyard is pretty overgrown.

There are 2 cemeteries in Carmel, both non-conformist. One is Capel Pisgah and the other is Capel Carmel. There is also an older cemetery but I'm not sure which church/chapel that belonged to. Do you know which religion your relatives belonged to?

I'm happy to have a look at the cemeteries in Carmel for you if that would help but it would be good to know what religion they were as both cemeteries are quite big.

If so, would you mind listing the names and years of birth/death that you are looking for as I've got a bit confused reading through all the posts.

As far as I know Bryntrallwyn and Bryntirion are both in Cilgwyn which is very close by but I have seen them both referred to as being part of Carmel in some records. There are many graves for residents from Cilgwyn, Y Fron and Upper Llandwrog at the cemeteries in Carmel so it looks as though they covered the whole area.

 :)

Hi Woostie,

Thanks for your post. I didnít get the usual notification so Iíve only just seen it.

The birth certificate I received from the GRO was for Jane Jones, born 26th December, 1846, Bryntrallwyn, Llandwrog. Parents David Jones, tailor, and Jane Jones, formerly Hughes. This birth certificate is for the birth my partner, Garethís great grandmother.

In a nutshell, Iím trying to find the marriage of David Jones and Jane Hughes, which isnít proving very successful; Iíve sent for a couple that have been wrong. I want to be sure of the fatherís names so I can then hunt for the birth certificates.

They had 4 children:
Margaret b. 1841 d. 1842. Address 1841 was Ty Newydd, Bryntirion
Anne b. 1844.
Jane b. 1846 d. 1940 in Penmaenmawr, living with daughter.
David b. 1849

Address in the Ď51, Ď61 & Ď71 census, Ty Newyddion, Bryntirion. St Thomas parish. In the 1881 census, it is just Bryn Tirion.

The mother, Jane Jones, died on the 20th April 1951, aged 29, and was buried at St Thomas on the 24th April. Iím assuming that she is possibly buried with her daughter, Margaret who died in 1842. If you come across the grave, Iíd be thrilled. I got the death certificate yesterday. (#Big Al, do you have these two in your M.I.s?)

Janeís youngest son, David, is the only one shown with the new family in the 1861 census.

David Jones remarries a Catherine, and has 6 more children:
Mary Jones b. 1853 d. 1895. (marries David Williams)
Catherine Jones b. 1855 d. 1866
Owen Jones b. 1858.
William Lloyd Jones b. 1863 d. 1932 (marries a Catherine Roberts.)
Robert Jones b. 1865
Jane A. Jones b. 1869

Iíve also noticed researching the area that at various times that this area, as you say, is addressed either to Cilgwyn or Carmel.

My primary focus is David Jones & Jane Hughes, and their four children. Things seem to get a bit confusing after David remarries. He stays in the same property, but from the 1881 census, he drops the Jones, and becomes David Lloyd. Iím assuming that this is connected to his own father. His then wife. Catherine, and their children also use Lloyd, and not Jones, although William had already been given the name as a middle name.

Iíve been unable to find baptisms for all the children. Margaret was baptised, but Anne and Jane donít appear to have been, unless I just havenít looked in the right place. I wondered if perhaps David Jones was non-conformist but Jane Hughes wasnít, but I really donít know which religion they followed.

A David Lloyd died 1884, Bryn Tirion. St Thomas, Llandwrog. A Catherine Lloyd died 1900, Bryn Tirion, again, St Thomas, but Davidís wife, Catherine Lloyd is on the 1891 census as a widow, with sons, William & Robert.

There was an issue on FindMyPast with the Llandwrog Parish Records index, which I notified both them and the Gwynedd Archives about, and they confirmed. Some marriage and burial records for St Thomas has been wrongly indexed to Llandegwning.

If you can find anything, Iíd be very grateful. Iím disappointed that St Thomas is now a ruin. I was looking forward to going there. I love old chapels, churches & churchyards. Are there any graves still standing?

Apologies if this is no less confusing than previous info Iíve posted. Itís the way I tell ĎemÖ ;)

Iíd love to meet up with you when we can get over, if youíre up for it. I donít suppose youíd fancy showing Gareth and me around? I wonít be offended if you donít fancy it, Iíll understand. Weíre about an hour away, near Llanrwst.

Thanks again.
Reid: Lamington; Glasgow; Dundee.
Parry: Conwy; Gyffin; Penmaenmawr; Dwygyfylchi.
Jones: Llandwrog; Eglwysbach
Davies: Llanrwst; Llansannan; Llanfairtalhaiarn; Llangerniew; Pandy Tudur; Gwytherin; Denbighshire.

Offline Woostie

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Re: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones
« Reply #51 on: Sunday 27 September 20 14:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Wallbanger,

Thanks for your reply. I (think) I've got my head round it now.

There are lots of graves at the churchyard of St. Thomas. The foundations of the church still exist and it's a lovely place to visit, if you get my drift, very peaceful. I've only been once and I didn't manage to see many of the graves as it was a hot summer's day (lol) and I was wearing shorts and it's a bit overgrown with brambles and nettles so I didn't venture too far. But it's definitely worth a proper look.

I'm puzzled as to why David Snr would change his surname, but this genealogy game does tend to throw up more questions than answers sometimes.

I've only lived in Carmel for just over a year so I'm still getting used to the layout of the old farms etc. I've seen it plenty of times when a farm has just a name, e.g. Bryntirion, then in the next census it's called Bryntirion Bach, then in the census after that it's called Bryntirion Something Else (just an example I mean). It's so difficult to establish the true facts sometimes but isn't that just the joy of it?

I'd be more than happy to meet up with you both if you're ever in the area. I don't know the area too well, as I've mentioned, but I'm working on it.

In the meantime I will check my own records. I'm concentrating on Carmel itself, or what I deem to be Carmel today. I do have some notes for Cilgwyn but I put them aside when I realised that I had plenty enough to work on just in one village.

Happy Hunting :)
Woostie

Offline wallbanger

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Re: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones
« Reply #52 on: Sunday 27 September 20 22:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Wootsie,
Thanks, too, for your reply. Itís not easy moving to a new area, is it? Weíve only been here a couple of years, but we were here off and on since 2005. I still havenít finished unpacking everything we had in storage. We havenít got much storage space so Iíve seriously got to offload a load of stuff, but Iíve been distracted with all this over lockdown while Iíve been shielding.

St Thomasí sounds like an old church thatís near me, St Maryís. Thereís just the foundations left marking the outline, and itís been left to nature but itís not too overgrown, weeds and wild flowers. Beautiful, so quiet and peaceful.

I got Jane nťe Hughes death certificate yesterday, but the marriage certificate Iíd requested came back negative. Thatís two failed attempts. Iíve sent off for a third, so fingers crossed, although they are taking a long time to come through because of Covid. I think the issue must be with the names not matching parents names. Iíve only requested certificates with both names on the same index page, and also asked for 3 year searches, but no luck so far.

I did however get a result with John Davies birth certificate (Jane Jones, the daughter, husband in Llanfair Talhaiarn. The GRO couldnít find it doing a 3 year search, but I knew it had to be there. I sent for 10 pdf copies of every certificate that gave the surname of who I thought was his mother, and, bingo. A bit extravagant but I was desperate and fed up after trying to find it for so long. At the moment, while Iím waiting for the elusive marriage certificate, Iím trying to look at Hughes families in Gwytherin to see if I can find a link that would bring Jane Jones over here in the 1860ís. Iíve found out some interesting snippets, but no evidence yet.

It would be lovely to meet you and say hello when we next come over. Weíd like to come back over before the weather turns too cold and wet. Iíd like to check out the two chapels you mentioned, as well as St Thomas church. You could do some grave hunting with me if you fancy it. We could explore together. Gareth can take the dog for a walk. He doesnít get as excited as me about graveyards.  ;)
Iíll send you a message before we next drive over to see if youíre free. No worries if not.

Thanks again for sifting through all my waffle.
Wallbanger  :)
Reid: Lamington; Glasgow; Dundee.
Parry: Conwy; Gyffin; Penmaenmawr; Dwygyfylchi.
Jones: Llandwrog; Eglwysbach
Davies: Llanrwst; Llansannan; Llanfairtalhaiarn; Llangerniew; Pandy Tudur; Gwytherin; Denbighshire.

Offline Woostie

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Re: Llandwrog, Bryntrallwyn, Jones
« Reply #53 on: Monday 28 September 20 22:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Wallbanger,

I'd be happy to hunt around the graveyards with you. Let me know when you plan to come over and hopefully we can meet up and see if we can find anything.

Take care  ;D