Johanna McKay birth 1882 not found, confusion re Mother

[maggbill]

This really is a mysterious one.
Johanna McKay married Donald Stewart in St. Mary's RC Cathedral Aberdeen (though no other indication of RC religion) on 20/10/1914.  She names parents as John McKay, crofter and Margaret McIver.  When husband Donald Stewart is killed in action WW1 (1916) - she receives war pension  in 1919, and she states her date of birth as 4th August 1882.  When she died in 1953 her son does not give a name of her father, but only "mother, Margaret McKay".

Have searched at great length and not finding birth entry for Margaret McKay for the precise date of 4/8/1882, nor Catholic baptism records.   Only 2 children of her name born in Scotland in 1882 - "Johanna McKay born 9/8/1882 Knockbain, illegitimate, mother Jessie McKay" - another "Johanna McKay 4/12/1881 (registered 17/1/1882) - illegitimate, mother Margaret McKay Achmore Lochs".  This second seems possible, but date of birth different.

So mystery - if in fact she was born as stated at marriage, to John McKay and Margaret McIver, why am i not finding her - even with a good wide time frame.  Also not finding a marriage for John McKay / Margaret McIver.  Birth not registered under McIver either.  Was her birth in fact not registered? 
The fact that she and Donald were married in the Catholic church is interesting too - first Catholics I have ever found in this line I think!  They had 4 or 5 children before they were married - and I would have thought that with there being so little Catholic connection from either party, marriage in the church would not have been easily allowed???  And if Johanna gives her two parents names.. then the birth found in December 1882 to Margaret McKay cannot be correct! 
Anyone got any ideas?  Hope I haven't asked this question before - have just revisited the family and realised the discrepancies re Johanna's birth and parentage.

[Dundee]

I'm confused, are you looking for her birth or baptism?  The civil registration indexes on ScotlandsPeople do not give parents' names so you need to buy some credits and look at the records.  I see you have done that, there is another in 1882 under MACKAY, and I wouldn't be too fussy about the year being correct.

Have you found her on any census with both parents?  Where was she living when she married?  Witnesses?

If she was illegitimate then there is no reason why she couldn't have fibbed and made up a father when she married.

Debra 

[loobylooayr]

Hi,

Does Johanna's statutory marriage record have her mother's name as Margaret McKay (m.s. McIver) or just Margaret McIver?

As said by Dundee - have you located Johanna on 1891, 1901 & 1911 Census. Where is she? Who is she with? And where is her place of birth?
You say she had at least 5 children ? Do their names give a clue to her parentage ? Is there a possibility she followed the Scots habit of the traditional naming pattern?

Looby 

[maggbill]

Hi Dundee,

I am looking for her birth, no success, so had a look for baptism, considering the Marriage in RC Cathedral in Aberdeen, but have not found  either - and yes, - have spent quite a few credits looking at the actual records.. They were living in Aberdeen in 1914, at same address in 1911 census - already with children. (Did not find in 1901).  Having said that, you have made me really look at it again, and 1911 census states that she was born in "Rosshire, Achmore" .... so that would make me think that the birth I found in "Achmore, Lochs, on 4/12/1881 - Johanna McKay, illegitimate - to Margaret McKay" is the most likely.  Which means that the two pieces of information which you would normally expect to be most reliable - being "primary" - info given by herself i.e. marriage /parents names)... and  precise date of birth given when she herself applied for War Pension are both wrong!  She was 9 months older than stated.. and yes, she seems to have invented a fathers name and changed her mothers surname!! for the marriage?  Witnesses at marriage were unknown/unfamiliar names.
Knowing how strict RC rules were, they possibly had to be fairly inventive to bypass them, and be married, (though why they choose the church?) before he went off to war, - just in case he died, so she would get pension, which is exactly what happened.   
I will try again to find previous census - though there are a considerable number of "McKays" to check out.  Thanks for your comments... made me look closer at 1911 census...  But am coming to conclusion that Johanna certainly was not one for precision in important details lol - and that I have already got her birth!

[Dundee]

I see she was with Donald in 1911 prior to marriage so that is no help.  Some others to try:

MACKAY, JOHAN
F
1882
056/ 32
Tongue

MACKAY, JOHANN
F
1882
361/ 13
Killin
   
MACKAY, JOAN
F
1882
646/2 983
Govan

Also a few others in 1882 but with middle names.

Debra 

[Dundee]

Which means that the two pieces of information which you would normally expect to be most reliable - being "primary" - info given by herself i.e. marriage /parents names)... and  precise date of birth given when she herself applied for War Pension are both wrong!  She was 9 months older than stated.. and yes, she seems to have invented a fathers name and changed her mothers surname!!

That would be too easy and we can't have that!

Debra 

[maggbill]

HI Loobylooayr,

When Johanna was married she gave her mothers name as Margaret Mackay (ms MacIver) - a name which I have never seen elsewhere.   Her childrens names do not reflect "grandparents" names ... No McIver, though a Margaret, and no "John"...  I did struggle to find censuses for her for 1891 and 1901, but will give that another try.... as stated in my last post, the 1911 census said place of birth was Rosshire, Achmore... so am coming to conclusion that her parents named at marriage are very questionable, and even her stated date of birth when she applied for her husbandswar pension was wrong...

[maggbill]

Hi Dundee,

Thanks for the 3 suggestions re McKay Johan... but as I now realise 1911 census says place of birth Rosshire Achmore... so think these 3 are bit vague...  might spend credits on further chasing of census, rather than these 3

[loobylooayr]

Hi.
Her place of birth on the Census sounds to me as if it could be accurate info - Achmore, Rosshire doesn't seem like a placename someone would invent unlike altering birthdate or mother's maiden names/marital status or unknown fathers.

Looby