Author Topic: Two Renwick documents from OPRs  (Read 573 times)

Offline horselydown86

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,647
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Two Renwick documents from OPRs
« Reply #9 on: Monday 31 August 20 19:37 BST (UK) »
Eodem tempore James Renwick & Agnes Scot in Ancrum

had a Son called Ja: Baptized Witnesses Jo: Lainge & Ja: Dicksone



Eodem tempore = At the same time ie just after John Blackie on September 15.

Ancrum - has been contracted but it's not clear exactly how.  Probably it's just Ancru(m)m(e) or similar.

Offline GR2

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,134
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Two Renwick documents from OPRs
« Reply #10 on: Monday 31 August 20 21:32 BST (UK) »
It is just Ancrum. The line over the top is not the sign of an abbreviation, but a long version of the mark you find written over u (the equivalent of the dot over an i). You can see it lower down over the u in Muirefoot and the u in daughter.

Offline pelirroja

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Two Renwick documents from OPRs
« Reply #11 on: Monday 31 August 20 22:59 BST (UK) »
Horselydown86 and GR2, thank you for your deciphering! Very helpful.
Bev


Offline pelirroja

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Two Renwick documents from OPRs
« Reply #12 on: Monday 31 August 20 23:46 BST (UK) »
I am trying to understand the paragraph that Goldie61 kindly deciphered.  My take is that James Renwick and Agnes Scot didnít have the $2.00 at the time to pay for the marriage ceremony but in 40 days they will have the sum.  Then something about parties transgressions and the witnesses are George and William Brown.  Am I correct?  What am I missing?
Thank you again for your replies.
Bev

Offline GR2

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,134
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Two Renwick documents from OPRs
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 00:27 BST (UK) »
When a couple wanted to get married, they went to the session clerk and "contracted" i.e. stated they intended to marry. They also paid "pledges", a sum of money to show that they were serious (the dollars in this case were silver coins). An alternative (as in this case) was to give the name of a "cautioner" for one or both of the couple who would stand surety for the pledges. The banns were then read three times and if there were no objections, the couple was married. The marriage was supposed to take place within forty days of the initial contracting. If the marriage went ahead in good time and there was no scandal attached to it (e.g. premarital sex aka antenuptial fornication), the pledges were returned to the couple or the cautioners were released from their obligation. The money was not payment for the marriage, but a returnable deposit designed to discourage frivolity and encourage seriousness.


Offline pelirroja

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Two Renwick documents from OPRs
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 03:32 BST (UK) »
GR2, thank you for the very clear explanation.  Cultural values have sure changed since over the years!
Bev

Offline pelirroja

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Two Renwick documents from OPRs
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 16:31 BST (UK) »
In rereading all this information another question occurs to me.  What word or phrase in the document indicated that James and Agnes needed a cautioner?  What is the name of this person for the couple?
Is it one of the witnesses?  Thank you again for the explanations.  My grandparent father was born in Denholm in 1890.

Offline GR2

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,134
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Two Renwick documents from OPRs
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 16:54 BST (UK) »
It says that they didn't have the two dollars (one each) which would have been the usual amount put down as pledges. The cautioners (the word is not used here) are Robert Williamson and William Kinnaird.

"Robert Williamson in Huntlicoat and William Kinnaird in Outterstowne gave their obligation to make the saids pledges furthcoming" i.e. they will pay the money if necessary (i.e. if there is a scandal attached to the marriage and the pledges are forfeit).

Offline pelirroja

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Two Renwick documents from OPRs
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 17:58 BST (UK) »
GR2, thank you for your patience in explaining all this to me.
Bev