When did Agnes Alexander/Ireland arrive in Australia from Scotland?

[majm]

found an online submitted tree which has Agnes (1839-1925) DD as 15 April 1925, Raby Villa, Queens Road, Westmead, NSW

Her brother is listed there too,  Alexander ALEXANDER, 1835-1917,  DD at Deveron, Reynolds, St, Balmain NSW.

And, Robert Anderson, her husband DD 22 May 1899, Camperdown NSW .

Ohhhhhhhhhh  and her Mum,  Elizabeth LOW 1807-1888,  DD 5 August 1888, 1 Hopewell St, Paddington NSW.

NO supporting documentation on the tree.

OOPS ... DD for Alexander ALEXANDER at Balmain ... 18 October 1917.

JM

[Westby]

Yes JM, that's the number.

The info about the bride on the transcript:

Agnes Alexander
Birth: Melrose, Scotland  (I have her born in Dundee)
No info about year of birth or age
Witnesses: Alex Alexander and Lilly Alexander (Agnes’ brother and SIL)
Clergyman: Henry Macready, Presbyterian Church
Location: Married at my residence (minister?) Crown Road, Ultimo

This is a 2017 copy, and there aren’t any other details on the form. This is not my document so I’m not sure if there was any other information provided with the original.

Sorry I don’t have birth certificates for these children.

Can’t confirm they lived in Denison Street, but Denison St is Robert’s address on the marriage certificate. He was listed as a stonemason. I do know they were living in Margaret St, Newtown in 1881and Rosser St, Balmain in 1884. They were living at 154 Australia St at the time of Robert’s death in 1899.

Sorry, I don’t have any info about her death, except that she died on 25 April 1925 at Queens Road, Westmead and was buried at Waverley Cemetery on 16 April.

[wivenhoe]

Funeral notice for Agnes ANDERSON

SMH 16 April 1925  p7               
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28067646?
...Mrs W JOHN and family.....her sister and their aunt.....

[majm]

Yes JM, that's the number.

The info about the bride on the transcript:

Agnes Alexander
Birth: Melrose, Scotland  (I have her born in Dundee)
No info about year of birth or age
Witnesses: Alex Alexander and Lilly Alexander (Agnes’ brother and SIL)
Clergyman: Henry Macready, Presbyterian Church
Location: Married at my residence (minister?) Crown Road, Ultimo

This is a 2017 copy, and there aren’t any other details on the form. This is not my document so I’m not sure if there was any other information provided with the original.

Sorry I don’t have birth certificates for these children.

Can’t confirm they lived in Denison Street, but Denison St is Robert’s address on the marriage certificate. He was listed as a stonemason. I do know they were living in Margaret St, Newtown in 1881and Rosser St, Balmain in 1884. They were living at 154 Australia St at the time of Robert’s death in 1899.

Sorry, I don’t have any info about her death, except that she died on 25 April 1925 at Queens Road, Westmead and was buried at Waverley Cemetery on 16 April.

Re the 1877 marriage .... so you likely have a NSW BDM registration that has NOT ever been reconciled to the actual church registers.   There was a huge debate, raged for around 40 years in NSW from mid 1850s to mid 1890s.   The Churches (all denominations) objected to the depth of detail required on NSW civil registrations, particularly on marriages ... Sacred info being made available to public servants who were not of the same denomination as the two who were being married...  I did up a thread for RChat on how to overcome those elusive blanks on the NSW BDM records... It is now quite a long thread, but it may help you to seek out the actual parish register to confirm what info the clergyman recorded about Agnes.   The info was all informant driven and the clergy would always act with discretion to encourage marriage as the preferred option to co-habitation.   Anyways, here's some reading material ....

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0

ALEXANDER would be a fairly popular name in NSW in that era.  You will likely need to seek further than the 1877 NSW BDM registration if it has those elusive blanks, before you can be confident that Mrs Agnes Anderson was Agnes Dick Alice IRELAND, nee ALEXANDER.      I suggested Emily's birth cert because it may help you with info about her mum's origins, to help confirm or eliminate the lass from Dundee.

JM

[Westby]

Thanks so much for all this information.  I take your point about this being a common name, but I'm thinking the witnesses at the wedding having the same names as Agnes' brother and SIL seems like too much of a co-incidence.

This is probably enough info about Agnes for me anyway. I was mostly curious about when she came to Australia.

BTW, you'll have noticed two of Agnes' daughters married Toyers - Agnes married James Toyer and Elizabeth married Frederick Toyer. The Toyers set up a brickworks in Dungog before moving to Marrickville where they set up a brickworks in the late 1870s. Seems the building industry is a little incestuous!

Thanks again
Fleur

[wivenhoe]

"... I was mostly curious about when she came to Australia."

The death certificate for Agnes ANDERSON, died 1925 Sydney, will ask for ...years in the colony.

[Jamjar]

 I do know they were living in Margaret St, Newtown in 1881and Rosser St, Balmain in 1884

I lived at 10 Rosser St, 1955-1960 

Jamjar

[Westby]

I’m looking for arrival information for two Scots women who came to Sydney in the late 19th century. They travelled separately. I would appreciate anyone who has in-depth knowledge of shipping lists or other arrivals information who may be able to help. Thanks so much.

1. Agnes Dick Alice ALEXANDER
- born 1839, Dundee, Scotland
- married name IRELAND (Thomas Ireland b 1836)
- children – James Playfair IRELAND (1861-1892), Alexander IRELAND (1863-1871), Elizabeth Low IRELAND (1866-1929), Janet Duff (Jessie) IRELAND (1868-1943)

It seems Agnes left Thomas in 1869, but we don’t know when she came to Australia – possibly in 1970. We believe she came with her youngest daughter, but the other children remained in Scotland.  She had an illegitimate daughter (Agnes Alexander) born in Sydney, April 1871, and lived (in Paddington) with her husband’s great-great uncle who died by suicide in 1874. Judging by other documents, it’s possible she may have used Alexander as her surname.

2. Elizabeth Low IRELAND
- daughter of the above
- born St Andrews and St Leonards, Fife, Scotland
- left with aunt (Ann Ireland/Wallace) when mother moved to Australia
- possibly working as a general servant in 1881 census

Elizabeth may have arrived with her grandmother, Elizabeth Low (Donald) and other family members by the name of LOW or DONALD. She married Frederick Toyer in Sydney in 1892.

[Neale1961]

From their death certificates, list all the information given.
Elizabeth Toyer died in 1929,Burwood.