Author Topic: 1450 latin will - COMPLETED  (Read 281 times)

Offline grantleydawn

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1450 latin will - COMPLETED
« on: Tuesday 01 September 20 03:24 BST (UK) »
I am trying to interpret a 1450 Will and I was hoping someone could help me please. In particular the children underlined in red. I am hoping the boy is Radulphus and the girl is Margarete.
The other part that I canít crack is the repetitive wording for each child, that follows the word meo.
Grantley

line 1
lego eidum Alicie uxor mee
line 2

line 3
lego Johnnes filio meo . . . .  xj li xiij s iiij d et . . . . C marcs? Itm lego Thome filio meo . . . .
line 4
. . . . Itm Radís filio meo . . . . x iiij s & . . . . C marcas
line 5
Itm lego Alicie filie mee . . . . x iiij s et . . . . libras It lego Margarete filie mee in

Offline horselydown86

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Re: 1450 latin will
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 07:09 BST (UK) »
The boy is Rad(ulph)o as it should be - the dative ending meaning to Ralph.

The girl's name is a little trickier.  It ends _garete.  It appears to begin with an M which possibly has an upward sweep indicating that -ar- is contracted.  However then there's an apparent a before the g.  Also the writer contracts the same letters differently in m(ar)c(as).

If that apparent upward sweep is not a contraction mark, then it's probably Magarete.

Regarding the phrase, I think it is (to take Alice as the clearest example):

...i(n) Jocalib(us) de [plate?/place?] x m(ar)c(as) et i(n) moneta Centu(m) libras...


I can't make a sensible translation of the Jocalibus de [plate?/place?] and internet searches don't give a match.  I will be interested to see Bookbox's interpretation.

Offline grantleydawn

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Re: 1450 latin will
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 07:37 BST (UK) »
Thank you.

I can now see that he appears to be giving a value, split between jewels and money. Something that I hadn't considered.

Thanks again, regards Grantley


Offline Bookbox

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Re: 1450 latin will
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 13:38 BST (UK) »
I can't make a sensible translation of the Jocalibus de [plate?/place?] and internet searches don't give a match.  I will be interested to see Bookbox's interpretation.

I think the sense is as you have it, and I canít usefully add much.

The actual wording may be ... in Jocalibus de plate. Jocale can be a jewel or any other precious object; one meaning for plata is Ďprecious metalí.

Offline horselydown86

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Re: 1450 latin will
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 16:17 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Bookbox.  I usually use Eileen Gooder's book and the online William Whitaker's Words, but neither recognizes Jocale/Jocalibus or plata/plate.

ADDED:

I should have said:   ...recognizes those meanings of Jocale/Jocalibus or plata/plate.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: 1450 latin will
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 16:36 BST (UK) »
Also highly recommended:
R. E. Latham, Revised Medieval Latin Word-List (Oxford University Press, 1965)

Pricey, but used copies are often available online.

Offline arthurk

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Re: 1450 latin will
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 17:09 BST (UK) »
I use The Record Interpreter by C.T. Martin, first published in 1898 - I picked up a secondhand copy of a later edition at a FH fair some years ago.

This has both jocale (a jewel) and plata (a flat piece of unwrought metal, ingot).

(Sorry I didn't mention this earlier - I was fixated on it being a place, and only looked in the place names section.  :-[)
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline horselydown86

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Re: 1450 latin will
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 17:14 BST (UK) »
Thank you both.  I shall keep a lookout...

Offline horselydown86

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Re: 1450 latin will
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 01 September 20 20:06 BST (UK) »
I use The Record Interpreter by C.T. Martin, first published in 1898 - I picked up a secondhand copy of a later edition at a FH fair some years ago.

This book is free online:     https://archive.org/details/recordinterprete00martiala/page/n359/mode/2up