Ballymena - Thompson - Brickwalls?

[genealogygirlais]

I found a marriage record for my 4th great Grandparents John Thompson and Ann Jane Bell - who married in 1816 in Glenavy (he was from Connor and her from Glenavy Parish).  No parents are listed on the marriage - just the date.  I know that's not uncommon for that time period BUT is there a chance there is more info available? If so, where? Is it possible to get beyond this much larger brickwall?

Marriage Date - 25 Feb 1816, Glenavy CI

Assumptions would put them born around 1780-1790ish.

They had Henry (1820-1888), Thomas (1825-1898 - my ancestor), Adam (1830-1888), Isabella (1831-1903), Elizabeth (1832-1905), James (1835-1910), Sarah (1840-1898) and Margaret (1845-1906).

John died 1866 in Galgorm - I have this death record, and articles regarding his death (suicide), Ann Jane died 1870.  Her death lists her birth at 1803, which would have only made her 13 at her marriage...

Would love some thoughts on where to go now!  I'm stumped.

I've done Ancestry DNA - I have matches with descendants from John's son Henry - which is helpful but not!

A

[oldohiohome]

I can't help with the specifics right off, but if your information about the children is correct, then Ann had her last child in 1845. Working backward from the last child born can be a guide to the wife's birth year. In this case I would guess about 1800, not 1790.

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edit to add:
no child earlier than 1820? and 5 year gaps between children. do you have parish registers for the births?

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and the next question the next person will want to know is what religion were they?

[genealogygirlais]

Birth years are approximate - they are based on marriage and death records - and a few from 1901 census records.  There is possibly some missing - I've seen on a couple trees a few other names - but have never found any records to connect them to John and Ann Jane.

I was told that being "of age" meant no parents listed - what was the "of age" of 1816 Ireland?

As far as I know they were Protestant.

I've found the family in - Galgorm, Ahoghill, Connor, Carnaghts, Crumkill... which from what I can tell is all pretty close together. 

I can't help with the specifics right off, but if your information about the children is correct, then Ann had her last child in 1845. Working backward from the last child born can be a guide to the wife's birth year. In this case I would guess about 1800, not 1790.

----
edit to add:
no child earlier than 1820? and 5 year gaps between children. do you have parish registers for the births?

--------
and the next question the next person will want to know is what religion were they?

[Elwyn Soutter]

The information in Irish marriage registers around the early 1800s was pretty limited. Often all you get is the couples names, the date and their 2 witnesses. You can view a copy of the original record in PRONI but there normally won’t be any additional information, and the church won’t have anything more either.

People didn’t celebrate birthdays in Ireland in the 1800s and usually had little idea of how old they were. Ages on death certificates and censuses are often just guesses. For someone reported to be 70 or 80 on a death certificate, an error of 10 years or so wouldn’t be unusual. No documentation was required and the informant would just have a guess at an age.

“Of age” doesn’t mean no parents listed. It means 21 and over.

You mention that the marriage was in Glenavy CI. That means Church of Ireland (ie Anglican). Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, after which she’d normally attend her husband’s if he attended a different church. So you might find the bride’s baptism in those records.

Galgorm, Ahoghill etc are all close together, but they are about 20 miles north of Glenavy. How sure are you that it’s the same couple? (Those are common names).

Is this James Thompson in 1901?

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Kells/Cromkill/931065/

Probate of the Will of James Thompson late of Crumkill County Antrim Farmer who died 27 May 1910 granted at Belfast to Annie Barkley and Thomas Barkley Farmer her Husband.

He married Nancy Ann Adams in 1864:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11623/8279255.pdf

Cromkill and Carnaghts are adjacent to each other and are in the parish of Connor. James & his father were both farmers. They didn’t move about much. I’d expect them to have both been born in that area. Connor Church of Ireland’s early records were destroyed in the 1922 fire, and they have nothing before 1871 now.

[Kiltaglassan]

Further to Elwyn's reply, here are the townlands of Cromkill and Carnaghts in Connor C.P.

https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/antrim-lower/connor/cromkill/
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/antrim-lower/connor/carnaghts/

Compare to the civil parish of Glenavy....it's 20 miles away, a long way in those days. And Ann Jane may have lived in a townland close to Lough Neagh.

https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/glenavy/

KG

[Elwyn Soutter]

In the early 1800s most courtship was done on foot, so that limited your scope for a partner. There will have been couples who lived 20 miles apart but in my experience of farmers they didn’t have the time to walk 20 miles (and back) to meet their lover. They married locally, often the girl next door.

Where does the 1816 marriage come from? Is it off a pay to view site? Do you have anything that connects your couple to Glenavy or is just that the names and date roughly fit?

Be aware that many pre 1845 marriages are not on-line, especially protestant ones and also that many churches don’t have any records for the period you need, as in the case of Connor Church of Ireland. Neither of the 2 Presbyterian churches in Connor have marriage records before 1845 either. So your couple may have married in Connor, and baptised their children there too but no records survive.

[genealogygirlais]

I'm 99 percent sure it's them.  He's listed as John Thompson from Connor and her Anne Bell from Glenavy.. I have her name from marriage documents for one of her daughters.

[JohnDoe2020]

Have you tried searching findagrave in the cemeteries in Ballymena? You can search for surnames in each location. I have found this useful, particularly if there are many relatives noted on the headstone.

[genealogygirlais]

Sorry it's taken so long to reply! For some reason notifications from RC are going into my junk folder.

The marriage record did come from a pay site - rootsireland.ie is where I found it.
I was surprised when I looked them up on the map at how far apart they were and you are correct it would have been complicated.  Maybe she had family in the area and visited and that's how they met?

Dates and names seem to coincide, but never know.

To answer another question - I've checked a few cemeteries but either the stones are so old they have fallen into disrepair or they didn't have one.  I wonder if John is even in one as it was listed as a suicide? I'm sure Ann would be and any remaining family who was in the area.  I'll look into it again - it's been a while.

James in 1901 is one of John & Ann's sons (brother to my Thomas who had already emigrated to Canada at that point) and his family - sister and grandchildren.  James and Nancy had: John, William, Thomas, Anne and Mary.  The Barkley comes in from John's marriage to Jane Barkley.

It's a large family.  I've been debating writing to any Thompson's in the area still to see if any are connected.

A.

In the early 1800s most courtship was done on foot, so that limited your scope for a partner. There will have been couples who lived 20 miles apart but in my experience of farmers they didn’t have the time to walk 20 miles (and back) to meet their lover. They married locally, often the girl next door.

Where does the 1816 marriage come from? Is it off a pay to view site? Do you have anything that connects your couple to Glenavy or is just that the names and date roughly fit?

Be aware that many pre 1845 marriages are not on-line, especially protestant ones and also that many churches don’t have any records for the period you need, as in the case of Connor Church of Ireland. Neither of the 2 Presbyterian churches in Connor have marriage records before 1845 either. So your couple may have married in Connor, and baptised their children there too but no records survive.