William Caddell , Painter, Logie St Govan 1881, born Holytown c 1853

[mattfrombann]

William Caddell , painter, appears as a lodger with William Milligan and Mary McCullough (married Drumballroney , Co Down 1869) and their two daughters in the 1881 census for Govan . He puts his birthplace as Holytown, Lanarkshire , c 1853. There is no sign of him in 1861 or 1871 census for Scotland (or England & Wales for that matter). Similarly there is no sign of him in any OPR (under any of the numerous spellings of Caddell). Neither is there any sign of a sibling 1855 onwards in Scotland (see what follows for parents details) or England and Wales.

22/11/1889 he marries Juilia Murray or Savage in the Mission Church, Grassmarket, Edinburgh. (now a pub), giving his parents as Thomas Caddell , Plasterer's labourer, and Elizabeth (maiden surname Allan) , deceased. After an eventful life featuring at least four convictions for assaulting his wife plus a week in gaol in Dublin for using "obscene and profane language", he died in Craiglockhart Poorhouse, Edinburgh, 21/11/1919. His death registration gives his father as Thomas Caddell, weaver and mother as Elizabeth (maiden surname Hanlan)

I have been unable to locate a marriage for Thomas Caddell and Elizabeth Allan or Elizabeth Hanlan anywhere , nor any indication of any siblings , likewise any convincing sign of them in any census. Neither have I proven where either of them died. There is a suggestion through circumstance (but no actual evidence) that Thomas and Elizabeth may have emigrated to USA ( a Thomas Caddell bc 1822 went to America in 1857 but I know nothing more).

Many of the Caddells/Caddles etc in Lanarkshire for 19th century can be traced back to Lurgan/Portadown area of Co Armagh and it is supposed that that is where William's antecedents also ly, but no proof has thus far been unearthed.

Note 1. Julia Murray appears on another forum - her marriage to William was her second.
Note 2. There is another William Caddell , painter , lodger in Logie St, in Scotland census. He was the son of Joshua Caddell also a painter in Whyte St, Govan. There is no proven connection between them and Thomas/William Caddell.
Note 3. There is a comprehensive family tree for Thomas Caddell and Julia Savage on Ancestry , compiled by a descendant and fellow researcher. We are both flummoxed by the puzzle of William's birth and his mother's two maiden names.

If anyone has any unusual info that could throw some light on the mystery , we would be delighted.

Regards

Matt

[Kloumann]

There is a Cardell family in Holytown on the 1861 census. Might be worth a look.

[mattfrombann]

There is a Cardell family in Holytown on the 1861 census. Might be worth a look.

Alas, this is the family of William Cardwell and Elizabeth Black , he is an Ironstone miner and both are from Ireland . The birth registration of son Joseph has the surname as Cadwell. So the search continues, and thanks for the suggestion.

Matt

[DonM]

If you have his death his wife's name was Julia Savage.  Its below his occupation.

Don

[mattfrombann]

If you have his death his wife's name was Julia Savage.  Its below his occupation.

Don

Yes, I know all about Julia Savage/Murray; it's his parents, especially his mother, that are somewhat puzzling

[DonM]

Sorry, I was eating and scanning your post at the same time my stomach was in control. 

Where his parents in Glasgow in the 1851?

Don

[mattfrombann]

Sorry, I was eating and scanning your post at the same time my stomach was in control. 

Where his parents in Glasgow in the 1851?

Don

Well, this is where the waters get even muddier.

There is a Caddell family in Holytown in 1851, but it is Thomas (so far so good) and Sarah (hmm) and little Sarah age 1, born Bothwell. Her parents are from Co Armagh pointing to the well established connection of other Caddells of the period to Lurgan/Portadown. I have alas been unable to identify this group in any other census.

Forward to 23/11/1894 and Maybole ,Ayrshire, where a Mary Caddell married Myles Callaghan at the advanced (spinster) age of 41, Parents Thomas Caddell, coal miner, and Sarah Hanlon (is this Elizabeth, a relative or coincidence??). This was a Roman Catholic marriage , which might be significant as the Armagh Caddells were overwhelmingly Protestant. Also , Sarah had an illegitimate son Robert in Holytown, 14/9/1877. Mother and son are 1891 census of Newton , Ayr, but I have been unable to identify them in 1881 (The two Caddell families living in the same tenement in Logie St Glasgow are that of the other painters Joshua and son William, and most probably close relatives from Ireland).

All very interesting but no further forward in identifying our William Caddell bc 1853 Holytown and his definite mother's maiden name

[SuMacd]

Hi,
Hope this is of interest .
This is info from the Marriage Licence Bonds for The Diocese of Down, Connor & Dromore.

Caddel
Judith Ann & William Best 1845

Caddell
Daniel & Essey Archer 1843
Sarah & Robert Mathers 1842
Thomas & Sarah Anne Hanlon 1845

William Caddle made a Poor Law Claim in Lanarkshire in 1913 giving his parents as Thomas & Sarah Hanlon both deceased. Also separated from his wife Julia Murray.

On Mary Callaghans(nee Caddle) Death Certificate in 1906 it gives her parents as Thomas Caddle & Sarah Hanlon.

I have found in the past that Sarah & Elizabeth can be interchangeable as names.
I have done a lot of research on the Caddell families as I descend from Joshua Caddell (in Govan),
Joshuas father was Daniel Caddell & I believe he is the same Daniel shown on the Marriage licence bonds with Thomas & Sarah.
I have also found the name spelt Kittle, Kettle, Caddle, Caddell and Cadle within the same family groups and most recently Kaddle.
Are you related to the Caddells? I am always looking for connections.

Susan

[mattfrombann]

Hi,
Hope this is of interest .
This is info from the Marriage Licence Bonds for The Diocese of Down, Connor & Dromore.

Caddel
Judith Ann & William Best 1845

Caddell
Daniel & Essey Archer 1843
Sarah & Robert Mathers 1842
Thomas & Sarah Anne Hanlon 1845

William Caddle made a Poor Law Claim in Lanarkshire in 1913 giving his parents as Thomas & Sarah Hanlon both deceased. Also separated from his wife Julia Murray.

On Mary Callaghans(nee Caddle) Death Certificate in 1906 it gives her parents as Thomas Caddle & Sarah Hanlon.

I have found in the past that Sarah & Elizabeth can be interchangeable as names.
I have done a lot of research on the Caddell families as I descend from Joshua Caddell (in Govan),
Joshuas father was Daniel Caddell & I believe he is the same Daniel shown on the Marriage licence bonds with Thomas & Sarah.
I have also found the name spelt Kittle, Kettle, Caddle, Caddell and Cadle within the same family groups and most recently Kaddle.
Are you related to the Caddells? I am always looking for connections.

Susan

Susan

Yes. I was aware of most of it. I was for a long time an in law to late Thomas Daniel Caddell (The mother of your fellow researcher on Ancestry was his sister). I like a good genealogical puzzle and am intrigued that the Milligan family with whom William was lodging were married at Ballyroney and quite possibly knew my maternal ancestors resident there

Matt