Author Topic: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?  (Read 1519 times)

Offline Rena

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Re: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?
« Reply #9 on: Friday 04 September 20 12:29 BST (UK) »
I had a similar problem with a William Ward, who had a cousin with the same name and of the same age, but both born in different hamlets.  "My" William found work outside of his home county and always gave the name of the hamlet where he'd lived as a child and where his younger siblings had been born.  It wasn't until he married that he gave his correct place of birth on the census, which was not the same hamlet as his younger siblings.  His cousin William had muddied the waters because he had been born in the same hamlet as his younger cousins.

A few miles from where I live there are villagers that still grumble because they now live outside the county where their family homes were built.   The houses were originally built on land in the White Rose land of Yorkshire but due to boundary changes, they are now in Red Rose Land of Lancashire.   Feelings were so strong, it could be the case that caused hundreds of census returns to be filled in incorrectly.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?
« Reply #10 on: Friday 04 September 20 13:52 BST (UK) »
Found Nana's birth father in 1891 age 20assumed the lady with him age 40  both lodgers same surname was a mother or aunt.

Spent ages looking for the her elsewhere turns out it was his father !

 Anyone else got relatives who changed gender

* I doubt anyone lied about his gender just an error somewhere
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Online coombs

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Re: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?
« Reply #11 on: Friday 04 September 20 13:53 BST (UK) »
My 2xgreat grandmother was born in rural Sussex in December 1863. Her parents moved to London in 1864. I always thought she was born in London as 1881-1901 census gave Stoke Newington as her birthplace. I visited the Tower hamlets archive in the summer of 2004 and looked at 1871 census returns for Bow. The 1871 census contradicted subsequent censuses saying London as her birthplace. 1871 census said she was born in Sussex, same as her mother. (Father born in the Garden of England county). I was gobsmacked at the Sussex place of birth given in 1871 census in Bow, London, and I found out she was actually born in Sussex but grew up in London from babyhood. She spent her childhood in Stoke Newington, Bow, Lambeth, Walworth then Holborn. I think she naturally assumed she was born in London. After all, someone born in 1863 would rarely if ever need to seek out their birth cert.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain


Online markheal

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Re: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?
« Reply #12 on: Friday 04 September 20 14:49 BST (UK) »
Intentional or un-intentional or just lazy with data?  They were not obsessives like us!

1. With the exception of 1911, Who speaks for the Household?  Invariably the male Head who gives the enumerator 'any old info' for his new woman [not married] her birthplace as Limerick rather than the correct Sligo. [Well somewhere over there!]

2. When children were 'seen and not heard' they would be very unlikely to see the record  let alone challenge the given birthplace, with 'but Mother-dear, you once told me that I was born at my Grandma's place as I was the first-born and Daddy was away as a soldier'. Of course Granny might have moved house several times in the interim. 'Oh they were all born in Wandsworth'.

3. Unless all your friends are family historians, the people I know have little idea of where they were born 'somewhere in Yorkshire or London', let alone the actual Civil Registration District.  Whilst our Mother was resident in the same London home, all my 5 siblings were born from different London hospitals in different districts.

4. The most common responses are 'I do remember growing up in somewhere near Birmingham until I was aged 5' which probably has little relation to birthplace. 

5. Even our Registration Districts change enormously and often traverse County Boundaries or even village boundaries.

There is no hope for us!
ANSTRUTHER,Worldwide
BENNETT,
BRETT, Sligo
CARNEGIE,
CROCKFORD, Hampshire.
ELLIOT,
GAUNTLETT, Worldwide
HEAL, HEALE, HELE, Chew Magna, Somerset
HENRY, Sligo
POPE, London docklands,
PRIDDY, Dorset,
STANDERWICK, Somerset,
RIPPINGILLE
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online coombs

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Re: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?
« Reply #13 on: Friday 04 September 20 15:22 BST (UK) »
Two Londoners I know, one born 1967 in the East End and one born 1988 in Westminster say "I was born at a hospital in either Walthamstow or Leytonstone" and the other "Somewhere in Westminster". Even now it goes to show how many may not be 100% sure where they were born especially in a big city such as London.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 04 September 20 15:35 BST (UK) »
Can also depend on how far from "home" you are?

I was born in Bristol (Southmead Hospital), as I was a twin born prematurely.
But my family were from North Somerset, and I "returned there at the age of 4 or 5 weeks!
Southmead was the designated maternity hospital for North Somerset!

So, I often say I am from Portishead, North Somerset ;D
But, when I lived in the Netherlands it was easier to say I was born in Bristol, as they knew that place!

I think something similar happened in days gone by?
The further from "home" you are, the more general the place of birth.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?
« Reply #15 on: Friday 04 September 20 15:37 BST (UK) »
Two Londoners I know, one born 1967 in the East End and one born 1988 in Westminster say "I was born at a hospital in either Walthamstow or Leytonstone" and the other "Somewhere in Westminster". Even now it goes to show how many may not be 100% sure where they were born especially in a big city such as London.

That'll be Whipps Cross Hospital I can confidently say......(the Walthamstow/Leytonstone one)

No idea about Westminster though
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?
« Reply #16 on: Friday 04 September 20 16:04 BST (UK) »
TWO gt gtgrandfathers both were economical with the truth, on one side. Both declared they were born in Ireland - but never seemed to be able to settle on a place, north or south, or a religion, tho' I suspect one started off as R.C., and I could never fasten them, or their parents. As a result, very short shoots on those two tiny branches before they die out. Pity, as I've "got" them both from their marriages in England, onwards. (One did bother my by getting a second marriage after his wife had died, but almost immediately tidies things up by dying himself in Fleetwood Lancs.)
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline jbml

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Re: Do you think you have ancestors who just lied on their forms?
« Reply #17 on: Friday 04 September 20 17:38 BST (UK) »
Two Londoners I know, one born 1967 in the East End and one born 1988 in Westminster say "I was born at a hospital in either Walthamstow or Leytonstone" and the other "Somewhere in Westminster". Even now it goes to show how many may not be 100% sure where they were born especially in a big city such as London.

That'll be Whipps Cross Hospital I can confidently say......(the Walthamstow/Leytonstone one)

No idea about Westminster though

Don't be so certain ... my brother (whom I shall not name as he is still alive) was born in 1966 in Walthamstow General Hospital. So that might be the hospital referred to.

Hospital caterers were on strike; nurses sent out to the local fish and chip shop to feed patients. Always arrived cold. Mother vowed never to have a hospital birth again. I was born in 1967, at home in Loughton. Family doctor was Dr Barnado (close relative ... possibly grandson, but the story varies every time I hear it of THE Dr Barnado, whose private residence was Ardmore House in Loughton ... a house which my great grandfather purchased in 1937 or 1938).

My great grandmother (NOT the wife of he who bought Ardmore House ... a different great grandmother) was a cleaner at Whipp's Cross Hospital ...
All identified names up to and including my great x5 grandparents: Abbot Andrews Baker Blenc(h)ow Brothers Burrows Chambers Clifton Cornwell Escott Fisher Foster Frost Giddins Groom Hardwick Harris Hart Hayho(e) Herman Holcomb(e) Holmes Hurley King-Spooner Martindale Mason Mitchell Murphy Neves Oakey Packman Palmer Peabody Pearce Pettit(t) Piper Pottenger Pound Purkis Rackliff(e) Richardson Scotford Sherman Sinden Snear Southam Spooner Stephenson Varing Weatherley Webb Whitney Wiles Wright