Author Topic: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE  (Read 725 times)

Offline haney

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 15 September 20 08:45 BST (UK) »
HI wivenhoe.  The other 75% is Anglo-Irish, way back as far as I could go.  Thank you Dianna

Offline haney

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 15 September 20 09:02 BST (UK) »
Hi again Sue looks like CAMMON/CARMON???? Something like that, now I'm curious!!!  I tried to attach the WW1 record here but can't work out how to do it!!  Dianna

Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,578
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 15 September 20 09:11 BST (UK) »

At reply #9 ....marriage, HOPE / TOWELL....witness is J GANNON.


Offline haney

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 15 September 20 09:25 BST (UK) »
HI Sue that is interesting.  Good you picked that up!!  Connection, who knows!!  Hmm more thinking to do now.  LOL.  Thanks


Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,247
    • View Profile
Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 15 September 20 09:31 BST (UK) »
The enlistee was a storeman.
He gave the address of living as 2 Botany Street Redfern.
This was the premises of a car parts sales/ engineer I think.

Perhaps he was a store man there. Someone may be able to give more information about the address.
The railway records given previously also show store man as occ.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15809315

You need to track J. GANNON, witness as given by wivenhoe

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,013
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 15 September 20 14:32 BST (UK) »
Reginald Percival HOPE born 22 September 1915, 29 George Street Redfern.  Illegitimate on certificate.  Father Ernest William HOPE Oil Packer as occupation aged 26, born in Sydney NSW

Mother is Adeline Formerly Lowe, now Bow age 25 born in South Australia.  Informant Ernest Hope, Adeline Bow, father and Mother George Street Redfern.  Registered  9 Oct 1915 in Redfern.


Did you know that Adeline's son Leonard Ernest BOW born Nov 1910 was not actually a BOW?

KING, Leonard Ernt Phil
Mother: Adeline Ruth WATT
Father: Ernt
CARLTON
1911
1423/1911

WATT was the maiden surname of Adeline's mother and considering the child's names I would say that your Ernest was the father, moonlighting as Ernest KING.

That makes this account of Adeline's husband's bigamy case very interesting reading.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/64439738

Copy and paste this whole link to your browser:

https://stors.tas.gov.au/POL708-1-2$init=POL708-1-2p40jpg

Debra  :)

Offline Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,013
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 15 September 20 15:07 BST (UK) »
I don't think that Adeline's husband was a BOW either.  He may have been born in 1884 as James Richard DOLLARD in South Australia to (Mary) Ellen McNEIL who then later married James Robert BOW.

Debra  :)

Offline haney

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 16 September 20 05:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Debra I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole thing now!!! So you think that ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE is an alias for ERNEST KING.  It states in the newspaper article that KING and BOW are brothers, is this Ernie KING, telling lies to Violet OR are they perhaps 1/2 brothers OR more Aliases involved here.

It's turning into a book or mystery novel now.
1907 James Richard Alexander BOW born to Adeline and James

1908 Adeline Ruth LOWE marries James Richard BOW
 
1911 James Richard BOW in Gaol for Bigamy.

Did Ernie and Adeline have an affair while James R. BOW was in Gaol???

1911 LEONARD ERNEST PHILLIP KING born in Victoria to Ernie and Adeline

1913 DAPHNE THERESA HOPE/BOW/LOWE born in Sydney to Ernest William HOPE and Adeline BOW/LOWE

1915  REGINALD PERCY HOPE etc born in Sydney to Ernest and Adeline # NOTE say's father born SYDNEY on this birth certificate! September 1915

1915 JAMES RICHARD BOW joins WW1 29/10/1915 N OF KIN Ruth Adeline BOW. Sydney

1916 ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE tried to join WW1 and rejected Sydney.

1918 On one of James Richard BOW'S Home Service records for WW1 he states his mother Ellen is his next of kin and that he is SINGLE.  So split up from Adeline!

1923 ERNEST WILLIAM FRANCIS HOPE marries SARAH J TOWELL.  His father's name is ERNEST PHILLIP HOPE (or is it????).  He dies in Sydney in 1952  Going Dizzy trying to work this out.  Extremely interesting. 

So did all three of them come up to Sydney together??  Were Ernest KING/HOPE and JAMES RICHARD BOW brothers??? Very curious how this son LEONARD has the middle names ERNEST PHILLIP???  Maybe I will be able to find a birth and relevant details by looking for ERNEST KING/ERNEST WILLIAM KING.  Thanks so much still working on the timeline.  Regards Dianna

Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,578
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 16 September 20 08:55 BST (UK) »
I think that the marriage of James Richard BOW and Adeline Ruth LOWE did not last very long, and I wonder if James Richard Alexander BOW, born 1907, Melbourne, was really the only child he had with Adeline Ruth.

Ancestry Victoria Police Gazette  Apr 8 1909
James Richard BOW is inquired for by his wife, Adeline Ruth BOW, 52 Kerr-Street Fitzroy, of Fitzroy, on the  3rd ult.

BDM VIC
13374/1907 BOW James Richard Alex parents Ruth WATT / James Richard
born Port Melbourne

13374/1907 LOWE Jas Richd Alexr parents Ruth WATT / -
born Port Melbourne

13374/1907 WATT Jas Richd Alex  parents Ruth WATT / -
born Port Melbourne

17559/1909 BOW Doreen Ruth parents Adeline Ruth LOWE / James Richard
born CARLTON

There are several articles in Tasmania newspapers on the matter of the marriage of
James Richard BOW, married Adeline Ruth LOWE Oct 28 1908 Melbourne...and (bigamously)
Violet Leith ROBINS married   Jan 4 1911, Burnie Tasmania.
James was back in Melbourne to be at home when Police Officer called.

North Western Advocate and Emu Bay Times 7 Mar 1911 p4
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/64447379?

* Ruth LOWE, who entered the witness box with a little boy about 4 years of ago, said she resided at 294 Lygon street, Carlton.

* Witness (Ruth LOWE) came over to Burnie on January 18, and met the accused on arrival,
when asked her what she came for, and she replied 'For you!' Shortly after she asked him whether it was' true that ho had married Violet Robbins, and he replied 'Yes!' Up to the time of Bow's arrest he had been living in the same house with witness and her daughter (accused's wife)

Examiner 11 Apr 1911 p3
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50470198?

* (James Richard BOW) was with Ditchams Travelling show when he came to Burnie.

* James Richard BOW told Violet that he was Ernie KING's brother, and that the latter was in Hobart. Witness wrote to King, and received a reply, telling her not to go out walking with BOWE, as he was a married man and had a child.

I suspect that the quality of proof reading and reporting is not great, I think the substance of the story indicates that in Burnie, January 1911, there is someone who knows James Richard BOWE, knows that he is married, knows where to contact his family in Melbourne.

James Richard BOW is described as having one child. Ruth LOWE brings a four year old boy with her from Melbourne. He is not identified as being her grandson, or son of James Richard BOW. You might reasonably suppose that this boy is James Richard Alexander BOW, born 1907.

Who is father of Doreen Ruth BOW born 1909?