Author Topic: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE  (Read 757 times)

Offline Dundee

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Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 16 September 20 14:10 BST (UK) »
Even though the person of interest in this query is Ernest HOPE, I do think that the BOW situation should also be sorted just to get a better idea of the relationships and geography when Ernest met Adeline.  I have no idea if he is 'Ernie KING' and also the father of Leonard but that birth cert will give information about the father - age, occupation and place of birth.  I would also like to know who the informant was, the father or the mother.

This might seem a bit  :o  but I will also float the idea that the mother of James Richard born in 1907 was actually Adeline's mother Ruth LOWE formerly WATT.  She was born in SA in 1868 so still only 39 years old and the way the birth is indexed does suggest that she is the mother rather than Adeline.  The one child of James and Adeline referred to in the court case would be Doreen.

BDM VIC
13374/1907 BOW James Richard Alex parents Ruth WATT / James Richard
born Port Melbourne

13374/1907 LOWE Jas Richd Alexr parents Ruth WATT / -
born Port Melbourne

13374/1907 WATT Jas Richd Alex  parents Ruth WATT / -
born Port Melbourne

* Ruth LOWE, who entered the witness box with a little boy about 4 years of ago, said she resided at 294 Lygon street, Carlton.

Let's have a look at electoral rolls, bearing in mind that Adeline was born in 1891 so cannot be 'Ruth' in 1909.

1909
52 Kerr Street, Fitzroy, Vic
James Richard BOW, Pastrycook
Ruth BOW

1912/1913/1914
19 David Street, Carlton, Vic
James Richard BOW, Actor
Ruth BOW

1913
541 Crown Street, Surrey Hills, NSW
James Richard BOW, Actor
Ruth BOW

In 1918 Ruth LOWE remarried to William Bruce DUNCAN in Sydney.  She claimed to be 38 years old (she was 50) and he was 25.  Adeline Ruth BOW and Maud BOW were witnesses.

I think that Ruth went to Tas to get him for herself as Adeline had already moved on.

Debra  :)



Offline wivenhoe

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Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 17 September 20 07:49 BST (UK) »

Debra....I think that the scenario you are suggesting is very possible.  Also, without a birth registration to see for Doreen, it is possible that James Richard BOW was married off to a pregnant Adeline.

James Richard BOW would seem to be rather gullible, easily lead. Was Violet Leith ROBBINS also a pregnant girl whose mother wants her married.....would explain the suggestion that James was intoxicated. All speculation, of course.

I think that Ruth LOWE's interest to get to Burnie as soon as possible is to work with James on their statements later in court.

The bigamy trial would be widely reported in the papers....the domestic partnership arrangements at 294 Lygon St would also be fodder for the press if known.

So who is Ernie KING a brother to?  At 1911 Ernie is "in Hobart". I do not think he lives there. The ROBBINS know him because he lives in the Burnie area.

Offline haney

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Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 17 September 20 09:16 BST (UK) »
HI wivenhoe/Debra
I've been working on this family all day and collecting every little bit of data I can.  I will post it here a bit later!  I am looking at available photos for the children of Ernest W. HOPE as he is supposed to be 1/2?? INDIAN.  So looking for anything that may suggest this inherited in his children. 

So is this ERNIE KING a native of Tasmania!!  How could he be James R BOW'S brother??  Cant get that connection.

Also thank you for the tip on Ruth's marriage to William Bruce DUNCAN.  I found Ruth Duncan's funeral notice.  Jan 27 1923.  Leaving from the residence of her daughter Mrs A. WALTON.  So Adeline (LOWE/BOW) Walton is with her new partner in 1923, the same year that Ernest William F. HOPE marries Sarah J. Towell.

A bit more to put together but it seems to be making a little more sense (sort of).

So 5 kids for Adeline LOWE/BOW ie 2 with James Richard BOW, 2 with Ernest William HOPE in Sydney and the other one Leonard Ernest Phillip KING, only used the name BOW through his life.  Maybe never knew the truth.  He and his wife Frances lost three children as Infants in the 1930's really sad, all buried together in Botany Cemetery.

I'm just tracking down now any information for the death/funeral of Doreen BOW-WALTON who died in Nowra NSW in 1989, I couldn't find anything on Ryerson for her.  I will have to contact the Nowra library I think see if they can help.

Doreens husband Leslie Russell seems to have died in 2004, 18th of Feb.  Published in the South Coast Register 07 JULY 2004.  Hmmm. 

So I guess photos of the children of Ernest William are what I'm looking for.  I have one of REGINALD PERCY and one of his daughter.

Just need one of Daphne Theresa HOPE-ROBINSON who died 2009, children Mervyn, Barry and Wayne (all deceased).  So the hunt continues should have my timeline completed soon and see where to go from there.

I need as well some more information on ERNIE KING, where did he end up?? Is he ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE.  A photo of Ernie KING would be handy as he would be 1/2 Indian if he is in fact ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE.  Wow what a story.  Thanks so much to everyone.  Regards Dianna


Offline sparrett

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Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 17 September 20 09:47 BST (UK) »
I see no evidence that Ernest KING and James Richard BOW were brothers.

There was a couple who were resident a Broken Hill , James Robert BOW and Mary Ellen BOW ( nee McNEIL) who had a number of children there as well as some in South Australia. I do not yet see a birth for James Richard but a death in NSW would suggest he is  child of this couple.

BOW  James Richard
Reg 10551/Yr 1937
Father JAMES HEBERT
mother MARY ELLEN
At NEWTOWN, NSW

He was in Broken Hill lin 1913 and in trouble.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/80072599

On his two WW1 attestations, young James states born South Australia.

He had gone back to his home with mother Mary Ellen by his 1918 (2nd ) attestation details.

I don't see a connection to Ernest KING in this.

Sue
 

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Offline Jennaya

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Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 17 September 20 11:58 BST (UK) »
I was wondering why young Violet would approach a man she didn't know and ask was if he was Ernest. When James replied that he was his brother, I thought perhaps Ernest and James were the same person using an alias.
However, a check of their  WWI records showed a height and age difference. Although the description of  James  is interesting: Hair, black: eyes, brown: complexion, dark. I wonder if that's why Violet asked the question. Perhaps they have a similar heritage. Maybe the comment "he's my brother" related to heritage, not actual blood brothers.
This is pure conjecture, of course.
It might be worth doing more checking of James family to see what can be discovered.

Regards
Jennaya

Offline Dundee

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Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 17 September 20 13:12 BST (UK) »
There was a couple who were resident a Broken Hill , James Robert BOW and Mary Ellen BOW ( nee McNEIL) who had a number of children there as well as some in South Australia. I do not yet see a birth for James Richard but a death in NSW would suggest he is  child of this couple.

BOW  James Richard
Reg 10551/Yr 1937
Father JAMES HEBERT
mother MARY ELLEN
At NEWTOWN, NSW

My guess at who James Richard was.

I don't think that Adeline's husband was a BOW either.  He may have been born in 1884 as James Richard DOLLARD in South Australia to (Mary) Ellen McNEIL who then later married James Robert BOW.

Debra  :)

Offline Dundee

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Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 17 September 20 13:29 BST (UK) »
So 5 kids for Adeline LOWE/BOW ie 2 with James Richard BOW, 2 with Ernest William HOPE in Sydney and the other one Leonard Ernest Phillip KING, only used the name BOW through his life. 

She also had at least one child with Robert Edward WALTON - Edward Arthur who died in 1956.

It also looks like Ruth's daughter Rachael Maud/Maud Rachael married James Richard's brother (William) Alexander BOW and she is the one who was the witness at Ruth's marriage in 1918.

In 1918 Ruth LOWE remarried to William Bruce DUNCAN in Sydney.  She claimed to be 38 years old (she was 50) and he was 25.  Adeline Ruth BOW and Maud BOW were witnesses.

It is certainly a tangled web.

Debra  :)


Offline rosball

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Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 17 September 20 13:49 BST (UK) »
Edward WALTON's death  notice

Ros

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Offline haney

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Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 17 September 20 21:10 BST (UK) »
HI Thanks to everyone for their replies and help.  Rosball and Dundee thank you for finding the 'Extra" child to add to the list Edward Arthur Walton.  Now have to chase up the "unkown" siblings Michael and Annie. 

Also Maude R. LOWE was married to William Alexander BOW, he was in WW1 as well AND living at 588 Crown St Surry Hills NSW.  Same address as his brother James Richard and wife Adeline Ruth LOWE.

So two sisters marrying two brothers.  Still trying to figure out the movements of ADELINE RUTH LOWE/BOW between being with James BOW and hooking up with ERNEST HOPE. So many mysteries here. 

It may be that James Richard BOW listed Adeline R. BOW as next of kin, even though she was not living with him!!  Just a thought, I have seen this before with my own Grandmother.

Maybe the death certificate of Adeline R WALTON may prove interesting?? What a story and all just to find the origins of ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE.  Kindest regards Dianna