Author Topic: What was the actual procedure for an informant in rural Victoria in 1880  (Read 246 times)

Offline susiee

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What was the actual procedure for an informant in rural Victoria in 1880
« on: Monday 14 September 20 23:08 BST (UK) »
Does any one know  how the actual "Informant   procedure   for a   1890  rural   birth  .


Did an informant  for a birth get given a form to fill out?    or  was he assisted and just answered questions.

Who  literally  filled out the   historical certificate   back in the day ?   

Or was a form transcribed  by the Registrar staff and then  copied on to a cert.?
But then  that why they  request   the informants   signature  i guess .

1-The questions.
2- Signature..

3- Description .-----  Its this question  we have seen someone wrongly   interpret   and write they are the brother of the baby instead of the Uncle .

t is a bit  of a twisty question,      you could  read it  a few  ways.
As in 
What relation are you to the parent or the baby .

Whichis what has happened  on a cert we have  so wanting to understand the process more clearly .

 So thats why we wondered if it had been answered  wrongly    by  the Informant or does the  Registrar staff literally walk them through the  questions and clearly explain  that " description "  or else they would have had a heap of issues with that  question  with out a clear interpretation of it .

Anyone know about this or can recommend a book about it  the procedure  that would have that amount of detail .






Offline majm

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Re: What was the actual procedure for an informant in rural Victoria in 1880
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 15 September 20 00:19 BST (UK) »
Informant driven .... and no pro forma paperwork required in that era. CONTEXT can be important.

Perhaps you could post link to your thread that has caused you to pose these questions.  I am one of a number of RChatters who addressed the discussion at that time.

It is only in the 20th century that ordinary people became familiar with completing forms by writing information in response to printed headings became the Admin normal practice.  Compulsory secular education to at least completing Primary school came about in the 1870s so the important skills of competent reading and writing were not always available to every rural family as teachers needed to be trained, funding for land and school buildings, equipment, and encouraging families to release their children from farm duties to attend schools.

Often a person knew how to write in their own name, but would have difficulty reading someone else's hand writing.

So the local deputy registrars were also not university trained people, may have had literacy skills, but not trained communicators.  They were often part time roles, or minor functions of other roles.

Births... in NSW ... remember that Vic was separated from NSW in the 1850s, .... the informant (a family member ... ) went into town, to do tasks  chores etc he or she may have not had formal educational qualifications ... remembers to register the birth,  stands in a queue with others organising land transfer or buying sacks of flour, ... turn comes,  wide counter, the attendant puts huge ledger book on counter, facing the attendant ... and grumpily says : Name ......  the informant answers this with his own name ... someone else in queue says in loud voice That's THY Name ... he wants baby's name ... that book faces the attendant, not the informant.  The informant is embarrassed and confused by the noise and grumpy attendant.

I leave it to you to get to complete the 19th century rural context.

JM  edited for some grammar and predictative text issues ... I am on e reader, cannot strike through ... sorry.
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Offline majm

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Re: What was the actual procedure for an informant in rural Victoria in 1880
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 15 September 20 00:51 BST (UK) »
I am sure this enquiry is about a birth registered in 1890 by John Isaac SCALES.  There are several threads that have addressed this recently. They are still current threads.

The info on a 1916 marriage registration does not support the bride being the baby girl whose birth was registered by Mr  SCALES in 1890.

JM.
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Offline majm

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Re: What was the actual procedure for an informant in rural Victoria in 1880
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 16 September 20 06:58 BST (UK) »
I am just tidying up my work desk, going through some scribbled notes, and so I share :

looking for Australian birth or baptism record Vic/NSW =any ideas where next? https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=836107.0   At reply # 7 is the 1892 d.c. for John SCALES (Senior, ie the father of John Isacc SCALES), and it includes the signature of the informant,  John Isaac SCALES, son, Farmer (of) Mitta Mitta.  (#7582/1892).

1889 Historical Victoria Australia Birth certificates – the procedure
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=835114.0
It is at this thread we also learn about the 1916 marriage  (Mary Helen ANDREWS and Ernest Frederic HARRIS) and that the ‘only people present were the bride, groom, clergy and his wife and daughter’.   The 1916 MC has the bride’s mother as Mary GLASS, and the bride as Mary Helen ANDREWS, a spinster aged 24.   The official witnesses are recorded on the marriage registration and it seems that they are the clergyman’s wife and daughter.   The congregation is not usually recorded on marriage registrations, so there is no notation on that record showing if the parent/s of the bride attended. 

It is also at that thread that the discussion develops regarding John Isaac SCALES being the informant on the birth registration for a birth 24 Dec 1889 and registered some eight weeks later on Monday 24 February 1890.   The opening post for that thread gives that there is a “small note written on the side of the cert dated June (1890) saying that in the 8th column where the informant is named that the informant was in fact the uncle not the brother’.  A respected Global Moderator has replied (reply #1) noting he could have given the information verbally along with several other sensible suggestions and comments.  Our OP responds (reply #2) noting the informant’s signature looked ‘like an elderly person signed it … he was 30ish …’  So perhaps the signature on the 1892 d.c. could be compared with the signature on the 1890 b.c.


But in general terms, I have not yet found anything to suggest that Mary Helen ANDREWS' mother was the sister of John Isaac SCALES.

I also think that all three threads would benefit from being merged into one thread.

Here is the live link to VIC BDM 'contact us' section.  I notice there is a fee of $60, in the section headed : Ask a Family History expert Need help? Our genealogy experts can help with your search or do it for you. 
To Ask an Expert:
Email your request to [email protected] (External link)


Perhaps our OP could consider if they were asked what the procedure was for registering birth in Vic in 1889-1890 and for the deputy registrar to make notation on the register itself re the relationship, that the response should help untangle any twisty info.

JM
ADD
Newspaper coverage Wagga, Temora, 1913 concerts from Miss Mary Andrews.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/142645153  Daily Advertiser 12 March 1913.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/145397402 Wagga Express 5 April 1913.

Add also
There is a birth registered in Victoria in 1890, and indexed as Mary ANDREWS,  mother as Mary ANDREWS, no name for baby's dad .  Ref 10718/1890. 
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Offline majm

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Re: What was the actual procedure for an informant in rural Victoria in 1880
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 16 September 20 07:42 BST (UK) »
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/80095507  26 December 1913 The daily news, Perth.

She was sad 'on Christmas Day I spent my 21st birthday hundreds of miles away from my people'.   So born 25 December 1892 ... and she was known as the Riverina Soprano as she came from Wagga.

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: What was the actual procedure for an informant in rural Victoria in 1880
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 19 September 20 01:38 BST (UK) »
 :)  was any of this info of any use?

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.