Frederick Arthur Miles (1893) x 2

[jrc11]

This is a summary of what I believe:
Frederick Arthur, son of  William
Fact;
 married Margaret Louise Matthews, no children. She died in 1951 in Birmingham.

Possible.
 As per post from Ladyhawk he married Ellen E F Sanders in 1952 in Birmingham, moved to Chatham and died there in 1955. I think marriage cert will be needed to confirm or refute this.

Frederick Arthur son of Thomas
Facts
Married Lizzie Perks. She died 1950.5 children (see below)
Possible
Frederick d Birmingham 1964.

 Questions;
1) Both Fredericks became widowers within a year of each other so whch one married Ellen Sanders?
2) Frederick son of Thomas married in 1916. Winifred, Frederick A and Mabel S were born in subsequent years as in 1928 was Ellen. The fifth child was also Ellen born 1914 2 years prior to the marriage. No death found. What happened to her?

ColC in your post of 1534 21/09 you wonder if Ellen may be the mother of Ellen. Could you clarify please as I am a little confused.
JRC11

[Comberton]

Births
Ellen Miles
qtr 2 1914
Birmingham North
6D
SEE M'28
mmn Rerks (on FindMyPast)
I can't find this entry on the GRO site
the entry is hand written on the image of the printed list of entries

Ellen Miles
qtr 1 1928
Birmingham North
6D
890
mmn Perks

Possibly an amendment in 1928, maybe to do with starting work. I have seen a copy of a birth certficate issued in 1916 for a person born 1901. It had a form on the back to give to an employer, presumably to prove he was old enough to work. Luckily it wasn't given to the potential employer as I would not have got to see it if it had been.
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable on these matters will be able to add to this.

[jrc11]

Comberton thank you for your post. Looks like the 1928 birth cert is needed to resolve this. ColC I have eliminated your wedding suggestion for Winifred. A Winifred M Miles was b 1916 in Tamworth and this is date on 1939 register. My Winifred was b 1917 and no indication yet of an initial. Research ongoing!

[jrc11]

Winifred Miles  born Coventry q1 1917, mother Perks. Sadly there is a death in the same place and quarter age 0. As I have found no other trace of Winifred I am making the assumption (dangerous to assume I know) that this is my Winifred.

[ColC]

Hi Comberton,
“I can't find this entry on the GRO site”

There are no births on the GRO search site between 1920 & 1983

Both of my parents were born in Birmingham in 1908, in 1921 my father was issued with a birth certificate, on the reverse it is headed National Insurance Act 1911. My mother, a few months later, is headed The Factory and Workshop Act 1901. This one is noted "to prove age in connection with Elementary Education". They both went to work on the same day and same place at the age of 14.

Colin

[Comberton]

Hello ColC,
It is the 1914 entry that I can't find on the GRO.

The record I described
says
This Certificate is not available for purposes of Secondary Education
Certified Copy of an Entry of Birth
(Issued for the purposes of the Factory and Workshop Act 1901)

[ColC]

My apologies Comberton.

Colin

[Comberton]

Thank you Colin.

There is a birth
Ellen Perks
qtr 2 1914
Aston
6D
1209
mmn Perks
I've googled Birmingham Registration District
it said (from UKBMD)
Abolished 1-10-1924 (to become part of Birmingham North and Birmingham South Registration Districts)
Re-created 1-10-1932 ( out of Birmingham North and Birmingham South Registration Districts)
Sub-Districts includes Aston
and
Birmingham North created out of Aston and Birmingham Registration Districts
Am I reading this right that if the above record is Ellen, her Registration District was Aston in 1914 and Birmingham North in 1928 when an amendment was made?

[ColC]

That is correct.
Aston, a parish in Warwickshire, lying partly within the boundaries of the city of Birmingham, of which it is practically a suburb. It is traversed by the old Roman Icknield Street, and the Birmingham and Fazeley Canal. It comprises Deritend, Bordesley, Duddeston-cum-Nechells, Aston Manor, Witton, Erdington, Little Bromwich, Saltley and Washwood, Castle-Bromwich, and Water-Orton. The parliamentary borough of Aston Manor, which was constituted by the Redistribution of Seats Act of 1885,

By 1911 Birmingham had also expanded further south into parts of Worcestershire such as Selly Oak, Northfield, Kings Norton and as far as Rednal/Rubery.

Colin