Author Topic: Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger  (Read 595 times)

Offline steadyrollingman

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Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger
« on: Sunday 20 September 20 16:10 BST (UK) »
I'm not quite a FH beginner, but it's a sort of basic question as it's the first time I've had to deal with it - were these terms interchangeable at all? I've got four George Langstaffes in a small parish in the 1700s - I won't bore you with all the details but every time I think I'm making progress in getting all the records allocated to each of them correctly, I find something else that doesn't quite fit and confuses me all over again...

As just one example of many, I found the grave of the one referred to as Senior in the BTs - on the back is a memorial to his son, Thomas. But when I check for matching baptisms, the only likely hit comes up to George the Elder. But surely Senior and The Elder have to be different people, right?
Certainly on the attached, it shows three distinct couples in 1766 anyway.

My working theory is that Snr & Jnr would be father & son, obviously, while Elder & Younger might be cousins of Jnr. Or one might even be a step-brother perhaps as there were several remarriages in this case.

Also, come to think of it, when a Senior or The Elder died, would Jnr and The Younger 'take their names' if there was another relative of the same name approaching adulthood? So say when Senior dies, would Junior be 'promoted' if he has a son of the same name that will shortly be getting married?

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 20 September 20 16:26 BST (UK) »
You may like to have a look at these opinions here:-

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=814622.0
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline steadyrollingman

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Re: Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 20 September 20 16:44 BST (UK) »
Hmm, thanks, that helps and confuses in equal amounts...

Wondering if going back 50 years and then working forwards in time might be the easiest way of doing this. Unfortunately, no BTs for that period so will have to wait for the Archives to reopen  ::)

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 20 September 20 16:49 BST (UK) »
Quote
Hmm, thanks, that helps and confuses in equal amounts...

I thought it might, but decided to let you see it anyway.  Googling didn't seem to cough up much in that direction.  ::)
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire


Offline jim1

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Re: Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger
« Reply #4 on: Monday 21 September 20 13:50 BST (UK) »
My view is that they are interchangeable & is down to the writer
or what  the person involved preferred to be called.
They exist only within the family to differentiate between father & son
with the same name purely for purposes of identification.
The only scenario I can see where a relative outside of the immediate 
family may be referred to as younger or junior is when he is the ward
of the elder/senior if he didn't have a son with the same name.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
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Online Ruskie

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Re: Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger
« Reply #5 on: Monday 21 September 20 14:36 BST (UK) »
Just an observation .... "senior" and "junior" seem to be terms used more recently, and "the elder" and "the younger" used more in the dim and distant past.  :)

Added: I am sure that there will be many examples put forward to disprove my theory.  ;)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger
« Reply #6 on: Monday 21 September 20 16:01 BST (UK) »
Reply #5. Someone on the previous thread (reply 1) pointed out that junior and senior derived from Latin words for young (juvenis) and old (senex).
I contributed to the previous thread but only to say I was confused.
What happens if N. the Younger (or N. Junior) died before N. the Elder (or N. Senior)? Did N the Elder (or Senior) remain N. the Elder or was he known henceforth simply as N.?
An entry in a Lancashire burial register c. 1700 was for "Owd Greenhalgh". I don't know if there was a corresponding "Young Greenhalgh" in the same place who may or may not have been his son or grandson or if it signified that Greenhalgh died at an advanced age, or that no one knew his first name.
There was an old man in my village when I was a child who was known to my family as "Owd Enty". His surname was Entwistle, a common surname in the area. 
Cowban

Offline jim1

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Re: Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger
« Reply #7 on: Monday 21 September 20 16:13 BST (UK) »
I don't believe it's what they were called during the normal course of events but more
how they were referred to in official documents in order to differentiate one from
the other.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline barryd

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Re: Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger
« Reply #8 on: Monday 21 September 20 18:20 BST (UK) »
Senior, Junior, The Elder & The Younger   ...............

Out of idle coronavirus curiosity women never had such titles. I cannot see why not!

However women had Miss and Mrs and Ms whereas men only had Master and Mister (Mr).