Author Topic: Help please  (Read 405 times)

Offline heaven

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Help please
« on: Sunday 27 September 20 03:40 BST (UK) »
My Grandmother "Helena Mary Church" gave birth to three illegitimate children.
Arthur Claude Church in 1903 and twins Stanley John and Jean Church in 1909. My grandmother Helena did not keep these three children.
 I am only missing one thing to complete the histories of these children and I am hoping you can help me find  "where they were from birth until they went to their new families"

Arthur Claude was raised by John Hill (his biological father proved by DNA) and his wife Alice (nee Collins)

Details on Arthur Claude's birth Cert -
 Name Arthur Claude born 17 June 1903 at 121 Gerry St (I think this is supposed to be Berry St) City of Melb, North Ward, County of Bourke.  Mother - Lena Mary Church of St James, Vic, age 24. Informant E Collinson, 121 Berry St, Carlton. Witnesses  Dr Wickens and Mrs Collinson.  Reg 23 June by Registrar Isabel Glennon.

Twins  Stanley John & Jean - raised by William Leslie and wife Annie (nee Munro)

Details on twins birth Cert - born 20 Oct 1909 at 376 Madeline Street, Melb County of Bourke, UR Leongatha, Mother Helena Mary Church of St James age 30.  Informant E Collinson, Sefton Hospital, 376 Madeline St, Carlton. Witness E. Collinson. Reg 10 Nov. Registrar Edward Glennon.

Thanking you in anticipation

 

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,277
    • View Profile
Re: Help please
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 27 September 20 03:53 BST (UK) »
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline heaven

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help please
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 27 September 20 03:58 BST (UK) »
yes I did and there was nothing found there, sorry,I should have mentioned that


Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,277
    • View Profile
Re: Help please
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 27 September 20 04:06 BST (UK) »
What length of time do you think elapsed between the births and the placements with families?

Advertisements like this were common in those times.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/196151223

Adding FYI. Sefton House seemed to promote itself as superior in its care and management.  There would have been fees attached to the services, so someone was paying!

Sue

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline heaven

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help please
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 27 September 20 04:58 BST (UK) »
Sue, I have no idea of the time lapsed, this is what I would like to know.
Do you know if records would be available?
 surely there would have to be records somewhere, but where is the question!

Judy
 

Offline Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,035
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help please
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 27 September 20 05:01 BST (UK) »
Arthur Claude was raised by John Hill (his biological father proved by DNA) and his wife Alice (nee Collins)

Are you sure that John and Alice stayed together after the birth of Arthur?  The Police Gazette records that John was charged with deserting Helena's illegitimate child at Carlton in Nov 1909.  It says "Care of Rev. Jackson, Leongatha", but it is unclear if that is just Arthur or his mother as well.

James JACKSON was a Presbyterian minister.

Debra  :)




Offline Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,035
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help please
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 27 September 20 05:11 BST (UK) »
If the children went through the State ward system then the records are at PROV.

https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/adoption-ward-state-and-care-leaver-records/ward-state-and-care

Debra  :)

Offline bitzar

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
  • Good things come to those who wait...
    • View Profile
Re: Help please
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 27 September 20 05:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Heaven

Also on Madeline Street in Carlton was the 'Carlton Refuge'.  I wonder if there is a chance that Helena was here.

Here is link I used once to try and trace a 'fostering' sitaution in the 1920's.

https://www.findandconnect.gov.au/resources/where-to-start/

bitzar.
ROBERTS / ROBERT / ROBERTSON (Paternal) - Dunbartonshire/Stirlingshire, Scotland
NEWEY - Leicestershire, England
FITZGERALD - Co. Cork - Ireland
HOWLETT - Suffolk, England
PHILMORE - Wiltshire, England
CHAPMAN - Cornwall - England
NICHOLLS - Cornwall - England
SHAW - Nottinghamshire, England
PRITCHARD - Salop, England
ROBERTS (Maternal) - Surrey, England

Offline heaven

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help please
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 27 September 20 05:56 BST (UK) »
Thank you I will look at Find and Connect.

Sue John Hill and Alice separated not long after they took Arthur Claude, they moved from the St James area to the Melbourne suburbs and loved separately, his wife Alice raised Arthur Claude and John worked on the Cable cars in the suburbs.

John Hill is also  the biological father of the twins, (DNA proved) Whether he and Helena spent time together before or during the pregnancy is not known, but the warrant you mention was taken out just 17 days after the twins were born,  (so it was not about Arthur Claude) he then left Vic and went to the Northern Territory.

It seems maybe the wards of state are my next options and the state records office requires a personal visit.

Judy