Author Topic: 1660 Will... Property names!  (Read 242 times)

Offline Llanfihangel

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1660 Will... Property names!
« on: Tuesday 06 October 20 01:15 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I have a copy of a 1660 Will of Jenkin Williams that I purchased from the Library of Wales.
Although I have deciphered most of this will before, with considerable help from Rootschat, I would like to know the names of the "messuages" identified in the following snippets.
There is one awful scrawl. that may be of interest, but I have marked the names (they are Welsh "Tir etc in the most part) with little red star.
I would be very grateful of any help here as I am quite unable to read the old English script and the handwriting is awful.
The estate was worth a lot, and you would think that the scribe would have been a bit more careful!

Thanks, and please keep safe!

Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline horselydown86

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Re: 1660 Will... Property names!
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 October 20 06:25 BST (UK) »
Try these:

1.  tir y Rhriwe

2.  tir y Cunricke

3.  ...one grist mill called melin g wern y ba?hd...

5.  Tir dan y llan & tir y llan ycha


I don't hold out much hope with #4 but will look again later.

ADDED:

Note that (for example) what I have as llan could also be llau.

Offline horselydown86

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Re: 1660 Will... Property names!
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 October 20 15:03 BST (UK) »
I don't hold out much hope with #4 but will look again later.

I can make out a few isolated letters but nothing worth posting.  I'm not even sure how much of what is between called by the name of and when he shall? attayne? to ye age of is the name of the property.


Offline Llanfihangel

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Re: 1660 Will... Property names!
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 01:28 BST (UK) »
Hello horselydown86

Do you think that

melin g wern y ba?hd

could be melin g wern y ddyfwg

I found a Melyn- Wern ddyfwg in about the right part of Breconshire!

melin would have been the anglicised version of the Welsh Melyn (Water Mill)

tir y Rhiwe is OK... could be Tir y Rhiw ...anywhere

There is a Cunricke in Llanedarn Parish, Cardiff but that is too far away!

There is a Tir Dan y Llan near Garthbrengy that seems about right..  Tir y llan ycha ("uchaf" Welsh = "lower") might have been close by, but gone forever!

Your help is very much appreciated!

Best Regards

Llanfi  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

The Welsh place names are hard to trace, especially since the old Wills were done in English, and many of the farms have disappeared without trace since 1660, or have been renamed by subsequent owners.
Pugh, Powell, Williams, Maddox, Prosser

Offline horselydown86

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Re: 1660 Will... Property names!
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 05:44 BST (UK) »
Do you think that

melin g wern y ba?hd

could be melin g wern y ddyfwg

I found a Melyn- Wern ddyfwg in about the right part of Breconshire!

I have clipped this part in close-up.  This word is immediately left of the star.

You can see the ba by comparison to bequeath just above.

It definitely ends with d.  Compare the start of during to the right.

It appears that left of the final d there's an h looping downwards.  Again compare to bequeath.

So it's something along the lines of bathtd or bakhd; or, if that whole letter is crossed-out then maybe bahd.

There is a Cunricke in Llanedarn Parish, Cardiff but that is too far away!

Cunricke is the clearest of these names.  That's definitely what it says.

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: 1660 Will... Property names!
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 22:25 BST (UK) »
I suspect that the Cunricke is Abercynrig, near Brecon.

Regards
GS
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk