Author Topic: England registration world war 2  (Read 443 times)

Offline Samantha8891

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
England registration world war 2
« on: Tuesday 06 October 20 20:38 BST (UK) »
I dont know if this is right place to post.
However, im trying to get to the bottom of something.

My grandmas bio mum, had another set of twins after her and her brother(he stayed with bio mum).
The second set of  twins birth certificate alike my grans has no father listed. We believe both sets of twins share the same absent father, however there is doubt.

Anyway, the first set of twins were born in hull, 1944, and the second set in 1945 (11 months after) but the second set of twins were born in Gainsborough.
We knew the husband of bio mum was back from the war as he was looking after my grans brother.

My thinking is, why did bio mum go down to Gainsborough to have these twins and register them there but not wait until she returned to Hull to list the father?

Was there a shorter registration period of a birth during ww2?

I personally think bio mum went down to Gainsborough to have the second set of twins to register them quick enough so her husband didn't find out and passed them off as his and maybe explained that the father had to be there to register there and then?


Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,845
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: England registration world war 2
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 11:54 BST (UK) »
Hello & welcome
How confident are you that the second set of twins are from the same mother as the first?
Do you have any post war information about the family?
What was the address she gave in Gainsborough?
I'm not quite sure I understand this bit.
Quote
My thinking is, why did bio mum go down to Gainsborough to have these twins and register them there but not wait until she returned to Hull to list the father?
You said the father isn't listed on either set of birth certs.
So what is he listed on?
You also said:
Quote
We knew the husband of bio mum was back from the war as he was looking after my grans brother
I take it from this he was previously in the Army & now discharged as he was looking after his son
& this was during the war but you also said he stayed with his bio mum.
So were they living apart at that time?
It's all a bit confusing
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,738
    • View Profile
Re: England registration world war 2
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 12:05 BST (UK) »
Was there a shorter registration period of a birth during ww2?
Welcome to RootsChat
No, the registration period is set by the Registration Acts, and was and is 42 days. (6 weeks)

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Girl Guide

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,202
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England registration world war 2
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 14:10 BST (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat Samantha  :D

As Jim has stated, your information is a little confusing.  If I have read it correctly we have:-

Great Grandma (bio) giving birth to your grandmother and her brother in 1944 in Hull

Great Grandma then gives birth to a second set of twins in 1945 in Gainsborough.

Husband of Great Grandma looks after your grandmother's brother.  Your grandmother is living where and what happened to your grandmother's brother?

Your grandmother's birth certificate, and presumably her brother's, does not name the father so one has to assume that great grandmother's husband was not your grandmother's father.

Great Grandma therefore had an affair twice? whilst her husband was away. 

The distance between Hull and Gainsborough is either 43 miles or 52 miles depending on what route you take.  Seems to be quite some distance to go to have another set of twins.  One wonders why she didn't stay in the Hull area.

As Jim has said, what is it about the Gainsborough births that makes you sure that Great Grandmother is the mother of these twins?

You have not provided us with your Great Grandmother's name, so we can't do any checking for you to see if we think the same thing.
 
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Online Rena

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,781
  • Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England registration world war 2
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 14:36 BST (UK) »
One thing is certain, which is   World War II was between 1st September 1939 and 2nd September 1945.

I was born in Hull but both my brothers, born in different years, were born during the war in Lancashire.

Expectant mothers were asked to try to make arrangements to have their babies born outside of the town in order that the hospital beds could be kept for local people injured during the many bombings.   I believe those mothers were given five shillings per week Existence Allowance.

What tended to happen was that men and women who were not in the armed forces were expected to work in factories for the "War Effort".  Some of my mother's cousins from Hull had been allocated to work in armament factories in Colne/Nelson, Lancashire  during the war and I recall taking the two train journeys there and the fact that one brother was born in the bath of the cousins' rented house in Brierfield (near Colne) that we stayed in.   I don't recall seeing any men in the house but in later years heard humorous anecdotes of times during the war when menfolk returned home for a short period of leave from abroad (they were toasted as heroes in local bars)   Even though three family babies were born in Brierfield, the registration town was Nelson, Lancashire.   

Maybe your family had connections in the Gainsborough area;  either with family living there, or working in an armaments factory;  Lincolnshire seemed to be full of army barracks and airfields thus would probably have engineering factories whic h p;rovided engineering goods.

Have a look to see if any of your grandparents offspring had children in Lincolnshire.  Obviously Gainsorough was a bmd registry centre but other family births might have been in other Lincolnshire towns.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Online Rena

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,781
  • Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England registration world war 2
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 14:48 BST (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat Samantha  :D

The distance between Hull and Gainsborough is either 43 miles or 52 miles depending on what route you take.  Seems to be quite some distance to go to have another set of twins.  One wonders why she didn't stay in the Hull area.


If you look at photos of the shipping port of Hull, you'll see quite a lot of it was flattened by bombs  and hospital beds were kept for injured people - Hull being the most bombed place in England after London.

Gainsborough  seems to have been near the place where the army's Bailey Bridges were made and tested on the River Trent.

For all we know the mother could have been a key worker in the factory making bailey bridges and the twins were born early.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Samantha8891

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England registration world war 2
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 15:26 BST (UK) »
Sorry, it is a really confusing matter.

My great Grandmother is called Edna Solly (Nee Bruines) - 2/06/1919 - June 1990.
She was married to a man named Robert Solly
they had a young daughter Edith 1939, Robert was then sent to war and Edith died 1943. we know for a fact he wasn't allowed home to attend his daughters funeral. Edna had an affair and gave birth to my Grandmother and Her brother Brian Solly (now deceased) in January 1944 in Kingston upon Hull. Edna then had another set of twins in February 1945, not long before my grandmother was put up for adoption..

Robert was home from the war late 1944 - 1945, as he was looking after Brain whilst Edna went to Gainsborough to have another set of twins (apparently this was because it was "safer" for her to have the twins first).

What i am asking these question about registration is,
Edith had Robert on her birth certification
My grandmother and Brian don't have a father listed (we knew this was from an affair)
the second set of twins don't have a father on their birth certificate
Robert Solly Jr (1946-1995), also has Robert SR on the birth certificate.

Whilst we are still researching the possible father of Grandmother, i believe the reason the second set of twins have no father listed is because they are not Roberts, Sibling DNA is not possible as the second set of twins refuses, my grandmothers adoption was a secret held for 48 years, as the second set of twins were sworn to secrecy and will not divulge any other information even though their mother has been deceased since 1990.

it also makes me think robert is not the father due to,
Edeith Solly (Roberts first single child)
Grandma & Brian
Two twin Girls
Robert Solly (youngest child - Roberts)

I dont know if im looking into it, too much but its a curious question that no one has let lie 

Offline Samantha8891

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England registration world war 2
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 15:32 BST (UK) »
One thing is certain, which is   World War II was between 1st September 1939 and 2nd September 1945.

I was born in Hull but both my brothers, born in different years, were born during the war in Lancashire.

Expectant mothers were asked to try to make arrangements to have their babies born outside of the town in order that the hospital beds could be kept for local people injured during the many bombings.   I believe those mothers were given five shillings per week Existence Allowance.

What tended to happen was that men and women who were not in the armed forces were expected to work in factories for the "War Effort".  Some of my mother's cousins from Hull had been allocated to work in armament factories in Colne/Nelson, Lancashire  during the war and I recall taking the two train journeys there and the fact that one brother was born in the bath of the cousins' rented house in Brierfield (near Colne) that we stayed in.   I don't recall seeing any men in the house but in later years heard humorous anecdotes of times during the war when menfolk returned home for a short period of leave from abroad (they were toasted as heroes in local bars)   Even though three family babies were born in Brierfield, the registration town was Nelson, Lancashire.   

Maybe your family had connections in the Gainsborough area;  either with family living there, or working in an armaments factory;  Lincolnshire seemed to be full of army barracks and airfields thus would probably have engineering factories whic h p;rovided engineering goods.

Have a look to see if any of your grandparents offspring had children in Lincolnshire.  Obviously Gainsorough was a bmd registry centre but other family births might have been in other Lincolnshire towns.

I will definitely check that out, thank you :)
the problem is why have the first set of twins in Hull when your husband isn't there, but then travel far 11 months after to give birth when your husband is back..
something doesn't fit, i still have alot to research, i hope its just to stay with family as it is believed that my great grandmother was there for 5 days before returning to hull

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,553
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: England registration world war 2
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 07 October 20 15:54 BST (UK) »

What tended to happen was that men and women who were not in the armed forces were expected to work in factories for the "War Effort". 

My mother, a young married woman with a toddler and visibly pregnant with her 2nd child, had to attend an interview to decide if she should be directed to war work. She was a farmer's wife, who worked on the farm, so therefore already doing essential work. The interviewer quickly decided that she was unsuitable for war work.
Factories set up free nurseries so that mothers could work.
How do you know that your great-grandmother's husband was looking after her baby son at the time she gave birth to the 2nd set of twins?
   
Cowban