Author Topic: Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!  (Read 2387 times)

Offline charleighcollin

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Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!
« on: Saturday 10 October 20 20:33 BST (UK) »
Hi all!

I'm getting very frustrated in my brick wall and I've come here as a last resort (and to make friends with like minded people, of course!!)

My grandfather's parents were Thomas Herbert Collin (known as Bert) and Florence Bell. I have this information from my grandfather, who is quite sure. My grandfather is the youngest and sadly the last left of 5 children - Mable (1916), Tom (1918), Cyril (1920), Mary (1926), Eric (1927) (and then Maurice, 1935). Granddad was born and raised in Lincolnshire and he believes the rest of them were, too, but he couldn't tell me anymore than that.

My grandfather recalls his dad as being "old" when he died, of which he apparently died at work, struck by a car in his role as a roadman for the council! I know Bert and Florence married in 1916 from a record I have found but other than that..... I know nothing.   

Granddad doesn't know his grandparents names and there is nobody else left to ask! I'm going prematurely grey trying to trace my grandfather's side of the family back.

I've searched everywhere for family for the two - now, I have found a marriage record that shows Bert's dad being Tom, and Florence's dad being James Frederick Bell.

It also shows Florence was born in 1892 and that Bert was born in 1874 (he is also listed as a widower, and I believe his ex wife was called Kate and he may have had a daughter called Clara, but I'm unsure about this, may have chased someone else's family for all I know at this point!!!).

As far as I can tell, James Frederick Bell isn't on any census' with his daughter. In fact, I'm almost convinced it's a fake name or the name of her brother, but I don't want to make any assumptions. I've found a family with a Florence Bell b 1892, a brother names James Frederick Bell.... but the parents are John and Elizabeth Savage, and I can't find a record for Elizabeth and a Mr Bell.

 On a similar branch, I've no idea where to begin with deciding which Tom Collin is the right Tom Collin - I find myself going down a rabbit hole and then suddenly.... I don't think it's the right one.

I'm hoping someone can help me with this one, I've been searching for them for a good few years now!! I would be really grateful if someone could point me in the right direction for this, please. I've managed to trace every branch except these two so I'm starting to get quite frustrated.

All the best,

Charleigh

Currently researching:

Collin, Kerry, Kelsall, Rushton, Turner, Schofield, Bell, Wright, Drury and Rowston in the UK.

Offline DCB

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Re: Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 11 October 20 13:45 BST (UK) »
Tom Herbert Collin married Kate Holmes in Nottingham District in 1900

I believe that his is him on the various censuses

1911 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-T8N

1901 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-T8N

1891 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4Z6H-ZW2

1881 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-2MMW

His parents in 1871:-

1871 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFY-DSQ

The GRO gives Thomas's mother as Astling

Thomas Collin married Sarah/Saran Astling/Asling in Newark District in 1869

David

P.S. - Joseph Wright married Sarah Collin in Newark District in Q2 1880

Offline charleighcollin

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Re: Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 11 October 20 13:51 BST (UK) »
Oh, David!! Thank you - I have seen these records before but could not find any proof it was them. Thank you for this!!

 Now, I notice Tom Herbert lists his dad as Thomas Collin on the marriage certificate to Florence Bell -- I see in your last link you link to a Henry Collin.

Is Thomas a Thomas Henry, by any chance?

Thank you!!
Currently researching:

Collin, Kerry, Kelsall, Rushton, Turner, Schofield, Bell, Wright, Drury and Rowston in the UK.

Offline DCB

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Re: Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 11 October 20 14:11 BST (UK) »
I also noticed that Kate Collin died in 1912

These are the GRO for the childrem

COLLIN, HENRY mmn ASTLING - 1869  D Quarter in THE NEWARK UNION  Volume 07B  Page 307
   
COLLIN, WILLIAM  LONGHTON mmn ASTLING  - 1871  J Quarter in THE NEWARK UNION  Volume 07B  Page 341

COLLIN, TOM  HERBERT mmn ASTLING  - 1874  J Quarter in THE NEWARK UNION  Volume 07B  Page 387

David


Offline charleighcollin

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Re: Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 11 October 20 18:51 BST (UK) »
Hi David,

This is incredible, thank you so, so, so much. I really appreciate your help with this one. Can I just ask - are you 100% certain these are the right ones? I have come across these before and I did write them off (obviously wrongly!!), do you definitely think these are the ones?

I had noticed about Kate Collin (looks like she was born Kate Taylor Holmes). Can't find much about their daughter, Clara, although new things are added each day. I think she married in 1925 but not sure if this is the right Clara Collin from what I've found.
Would very much like to find out what happened with Kate and Clara, my grandfather definitely knows nothing about them so it's either telling that something bad happened or that we're barking up the wrong tree.......................................................................

Once again, thank you so much for this, any help with this is very, very much appreciated. I have been looking for Thomas Herbert's parents for years and you did it in a quick 5 minutes!!  ;D ;D
Currently researching:

Collin, Kerry, Kelsall, Rushton, Turner, Schofield, Bell, Wright, Drury and Rowston in the UK.

Online Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 11 October 20 19:06 BST (UK) »
Is this he marriage you found?

Clara Collin  [Clara Collins]
Age:    24
Father:    Tom Collins

Frederick Marks
Age  24
Father: Frederick Marks

Marriage    1925 North Hyckham, Lincoln, England



Offline charleighcollin

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Re: Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 11 October 20 19:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Mabel,

Yes that's the one, although I did find another a few weeks ago. No idea where it's gone, was a different partner all together and I thought I had saved it, no joy, though. Just scribbled "married" on some paper  :-\

Not sure if this is the same Clara, as just found a census for possibly this Clara with a different set of parents (Tom Collins as dad, which I can accept as a slip in name, but different mother potentially).

Currently researching:

Collin, Kerry, Kelsall, Rushton, Turner, Schofield, Bell, Wright, Drury and Rowston in the UK.

Online Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 11 October 20 19:39 BST (UK) »
There are potentially more children than you think - these birth registrations are all with mother's maiden name Bell in the correct area

Collin      Mabel    Newark   Dec 1916
Collin    Tom H    Newark  Sep 1918
Collin    Cyril A    Newark   Dec 1920
Collin    Dorothy J    Stamford   Mar 1921
Collin    Mary    Newark    Mar 1923
Collin    Eileen M    Stamford Sep 1926  [Died Q1 1927 - transcribed as Bileen]
Collin     Eric        Lincoln     Jun 1927
Collin      Frank    Stamford  Jun 1929
Collin      Maurice    N.Kesteven   Jun 1935

Haven't been able to find anything else out about Dorothy or Frank. If they also died before your grandfather was born, it may be he had little awareness of them

Online Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 11 October 20 19:45 BST (UK) »
This seems a likely death for his father

Tom H Collin
Age:    73
Q1 1948   North Kesteven  Vol 3b, p106