Author Topic: Marie Francois Dufrene m. Jean Payn  (Read 165 times)

Offline HannahR

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Marie Francois Dufrene m. Jean Payn
« on: Sunday 11 October 20 17:35 BST (UK) »
Hello!

I am hoping someone with more expertise that me might be able to help. I am helping a friend with their family history and discovered that they are from Jersey. This is what I have found so far:

Marie married Jean Payne in St. Hellier on 9 April 1831 in St. Hellier. She was from Granville (I think) in France and he was form Nantes.

Fast forward on to a directory in 1839 where I find Mary Payne at 24 Queen Street owning a Fancy Repository. No sign of Jean Payne but he must be somewhere as they have children later on.

Fast forward again to 1851 where I find Mary Payn, a Jeweller, living with her children: Alphonse, Mary, Armand, Alfred, and Angeline.

So my questions are:

(1) Where would I find a death record?
(2) Is there an 1841 Census for Jersey?
(3) Can I find out anything more about her business?

Thanks,
Hannah
The following names appear in my family tree: Bells [Dumfries], Todd [Perth], McLean [Campbeltown], Newson [Suffolk], Fosse(y) [Buckinghamshire], Butler [Glamorganishire], Jenkins [Glamorgan/ England], Tilling or Telling [Gloucestershire]

Offline rosie99

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Re: Marie Francois Dufrene m. Jean Payn
« Reply #1 on: Monday 12 October 20 09:17 BST (UK) »
The 1841 census for Jersey is available with the other UK census online.

HO107/1461 bk 9 f30 p8
24 Queen Street
John   Payn   30   bn Jersey, Channel Islands occ Painter
Mary   Payn   25   bn France. (No occupation listed)
Louisa Payn 5   bn Jersey, Channel Islands
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rosie99

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Re: Marie Francois Dufrene m. Jean Payn
« Reply #2 on: Monday 12 October 20 09:29 BST (UK) »
Details from 1851 which are not same family as those in Queen Street in 1841.  :-\

22 King Street
Mary   Payn   Widow    73   Jeweller   bn France
Alphonse   Payn   Son   19   
Mary   Payn   Daughter   16   
Armand   Payn   Son   15   
Alfred   Payn   Son   15   
Angeline   Payn   Daughter   9   
Children all born St Helier

Image does give Mary's age as 73 which if she is the mother of those children cannot be right.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline HannahR

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Re: Marie Francois Dufrene m. Jean Payn
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 14 October 20 20:07 BST (UK) »
Details from 1851 which are not same family as those in Queen Street in 1841.  :-\

22 King Street
Mary   Payn   Widow    73   Jeweller   bn France
Alphonse   Payn   Son   19   
Mary   Payn   Daughter   16   
Armand   Payn   Son   15   
Alfred   Payn   Son   15   
Angeline   Payn   Daughter   9   
Children all born St Helier

Image does give Mary's age as 73 which if she is the mother of those children cannot be right.

I did think the age was off a bit. Do you know where burial records might be? Are any of them online? Thanks for the 1841 Census.
The following names appear in my family tree: Bells [Dumfries], Todd [Perth], McLean [Campbeltown], Newson [Suffolk], Fosse(y) [Buckinghamshire], Butler [Glamorganishire], Jenkins [Glamorgan/ England], Tilling or Telling [Gloucestershire]

Offline la grande-méthe

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Re: Marie Francois Dufrene m. Jean Payn
« Reply #4 on: Friday 16 October 20 15:13 BST (UK) »
First of all Payn(e) is a reasonably common name in Jersey.
The marriage record of Jean and Marie Francoise shows that they married in St Thomas' Roman Catholic Church on 16 April 1831. His father was called Philippe and his mother was Marie Louise Le Halper(?). Her father's name is illegible but her mother was Marie Francoise Augrain. Amongst the witnesses at the marriage were Marie Louise Payn and Aglaie Payn.
The couple had at least 8 children and most of them had 2 baptisms, one Anglican and one RC.
It is quite possible that the 1841 census shown above is the same family as in 1851. Their full name of their daughter named as Mary in 1851 was Marie Louise so 5 year old Louisa in 1841 could be the same person. It was quite common for French families to give their children 2 or 3 christian names and for those names to be used in random order. Also King Street runs into Queen Street (or vice versa). There were at least 3 sons born before 1841, although I believe one died in infancy. These boys do not seem to be on the 1841 but may have spent their early years in France.
There were 3 Jean/John Payn deaths in St Helier between 1841 and 1851, one of whom was the John Payn from the 1841 census who died of TB in 1850.



Offline HannahR

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Re: Marie Francois Dufrene m. Jean Payn
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 17 October 20 18:33 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much la grande-méthe. I hadn't seen the parents names on the marriage that I found unless I was looking at the long record. That helps a lot!
The following names appear in my family tree: Bells [Dumfries], Todd [Perth], McLean [Campbeltown], Newson [Suffolk], Fosse(y) [Buckinghamshire], Butler [Glamorganishire], Jenkins [Glamorgan/ England], Tilling or Telling [Gloucestershire]

Offline la grande-méthe

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Re: Marie Francois Dufrene m. Jean Payn
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 17 October 20 19:21 BST (UK) »
I imagine you were looking at the St Helier Town Church record which shows them marrying on 9 April 1831. I was looking at the Roman Catholic marriage which seems to have taken place about a week later. Yours gives places of birth, mine gives parent's names - win, win!
I wonder if one of them was RC amd the other Anglican.