Author Topic: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.  (Read 1069 times)

Offline groom

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Re: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 14 October 20 00:24 BST (UK) »

Jean Baptiste Renders was born on May 3 1858, in Overijse, Brabant Wallon, Belgium, to Pierre Joseph Renders and Anna Maria Renders (born Kumps).

Renders seems to be from Belgium.

Thatís brilliant, where did you find that, please?  Just realised though, that cant be Alfred Hector Renders father if he was born 1858 as heís far too young as Beatrice was born 1869!
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Offline Girl Guide

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Re: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 14 October 20 08:19 BST (UK) »
Could Jean Baptiste be a brother or cousin?  Perhaps Pierre was dead at the time of Alfred's marriage or he misunderstood the question about father.

Just a guess.
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Offline Millmoor

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Re: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 14 October 20 08:31 BST (UK) »
Try a general search in Familysearch, Groom. There are a number of records in Belgium for various Jean Baptiste Renders including a death in Liege in 1876  and born 1827.

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Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 14 October 20 20:24 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone for your input here.  Jan and I  have really struggled to work out what's been going on with some members of this family!  I've just put things in chronological order, to get my head around what was going on, as much as to help everyone else:

1869 (Jan?) - Marriage in Kensington of Alfred Hector Renders (address unknown) and Sarah S Phillips of Radnorshire, Mid Wales.
1869 Sept Q - Birth of Beatrice Mary Selina Renders in Builth, Wales
1871 census (2 April)  - Sarah Renders and baby Beatrice are living at Mill House, Llandrindod Wells, with Sarah's mother.  Also there as lodger and miller is one Alfred Handley.
Sept 1871 - Birth of Mabel Elizabeth Renders, Builth
Jun Q 1872 - Marriage of Sarah Renders  to Alfred Handley, Builth
Jun 1873 - Death of Mabel Elizabeth Renders

Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
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Offline louisa maud

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Re: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 14 October 20 20:31 BST (UK) »
Have you got the marriage certs  1869 and  1872,  the last one will be interesting as to her status
I am assuming that Alfred must have returned to his homeland or Sarah must have assumed he had died

Louisa Maud
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Offline groom

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Re: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 14 October 20 21:11 BST (UK) »
Have you got the marriage certs  1869 and  1872,  the last one will be interesting as to her status
I am assuming that Alfred must have returned to his homeland or Sarah must have assumed he had died

Louisa Maud

As these are side lines on the tree, we are not really sure whether it is worth the £22. We mainly wanted to know Beatrice's father to see if that was the correct marriage in London. We aren't sure that the 1872 one would be of any help, as the chances are Sarah may have said she was a widow, and that won't prove anything.

What would be great now would be to find out what happened to Alfred Hector Maximillian after the marriage and before 1871. Sarah obviously went back to Wales for the birth and stayed there. The chances are that the second baby was Alfred Handley's but would be registered as a Renders as that was her mother's name.

As Chris said, this family like to confuse - we had the wrong wife for another member for ages, as she decided to marry as Elizabeth Jane Handley when she was really just Jane Handley! 
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Offline louisa maud

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Re: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 14 October 20 21:17 BST (UK) »
Yes, they are certainly giving you the run around

LM
Census information is Crown Copyright,
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Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Lethbridge Paddington Slough
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 15 October 20 20:41 BST (UK) »
Jan and I started following the family as they were millers at the mill we're researching, but the more we find out about them, the more interesting they become.   I am sure their stories would make a really interesting historical novel.  Our main heroine was born into a milling family in Mid Wales, married a lad from another well-known milling family, and helped her husband to run the mill. She and her husband seem to have raised their grandson, and when he grew old enough he helped with the milling.  After her husband died, our heroine ran the mill with the help of her grandson and when she died, he became the miller.  Then things seem to have gone wrong but we don't really know why.  The grandson bought the mill (it was previously leased) but his wife became ill, and she ended up in an asylum in South Wales whilst he was living nearby with his daughter, and working as an overground colliery labourer. Another family had taken over the mill.  There are so many facets to the stories surrounding this family I bet Jan and I will still be doing our research five years hence.  Because every time we think we're about ready to start writing the story down, we find another interesting character to follow.
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline groom

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Re: Beatrice Mary Selena Renders mystery.
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 15 October 20 21:22 BST (UK) »
As Chris said, we have uncovered some lovely snippets especially from newspapers. For instance the grandson's wife had a fit and fell into the mill trench but luckily was rescued by neighbours. His sister was deaf and dumb and we found her at a school in one census, and a lovely description of her marriage from the papers - she married someone who was also deaf and dumb. The service was conducted by two vicars, one from Birmingham assisted by the local vicar. It would be nice to think that the one from Birmingham signed the service.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk