Author Topic: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will  (Read 788 times)

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 18 October 20 05:17 BST (UK) »
intails

Whilst it looks very like intails, I think it is actually:  ...trusts intents and purposes...

Also:  ...powers provisoes and declarations...

ADDED:

Mezentia, if you expect there to be more posts to come on this thread, it would be worthwhile to ask the moderator to shift it onto the Handwriting Deciphering and Recognition board.

Offline mezentia

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Re: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 18 October 20 14:03 BST (UK) »
Quote
Mezentia, if you expect there to be more posts to come on this thread, it would be worthwhile to ask the moderator to shift it onto the Handwriting Deciphering and Recognition board

Yes and yes; I did think after posting initially that it's in the wrong board. Mea Culpa.
Anderson - Leics., Yorks.; Attwood - Worcs., Staffs.,  Salop; Baylis - Worcs.; Beach/Bache - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Bills - Devon, Worcs.<br />Dovey - Worcs., Staff., Salop; Gill - Worcs.; Hampton - Worcs., Staffs.; Hancox/Hancocks - Worcs., Staffs.<br />Hill - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Sherwood - Worcs., Staffs.; Stonyer - Worcs., Staff., Salop, Essex<br />Woodall - Worcs., Staffs.; Potter - Essex.

Offline mezentia

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Re: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 18 October 20 15:43 BST (UK) »
Thanks again for all the suggestions so far received, I really do appreciate the help. I do seem to be "getting my eye in" a little in being able to decipher this particular variety of script, and have now completed the rest of the first part of page 2.   :D Working on the brightness and contrast of the images downloaded from Ancestry does make reading a little easier, now only another 235 or so lines to go  ::)

There was a little discussion about one term, intails or intents. On working on the contents a little further into the will where the term appears again, but this time a little more clearly, I believe that the term is actually intail, an archaic rendering of entail , which as the will is concerning Joseph's property, seems to make more sense in the context.
Anderson - Leics., Yorks.; Attwood - Worcs., Staffs.,  Salop; Baylis - Worcs.; Beach/Bache - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Bills - Devon, Worcs.<br />Dovey - Worcs., Staff., Salop; Gill - Worcs.; Hampton - Worcs., Staffs.; Hancox/Hancocks - Worcs., Staffs.<br />Hill - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Sherwood - Worcs., Staffs.; Stonyer - Worcs., Staff., Salop, Essex<br />Woodall - Worcs., Staffs.; Potter - Essex.


Offline horselydown86

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Re: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will
« Reply #21 on: Monday 19 October 20 05:17 BST (UK) »
There was a little discussion about one term, intails or intents. On working on the contents a little further into the will where the term appears again, but this time a little more clearly, I believe that the term is actually intail, an archaic rendering of entail , which as the will is concerning Joseph's property, seems to make more sense in the context.

While it is true that intail is an archaic rendering of entail, I am confident that this word is intents.

1.  He dots the letter i.  There is only one dot in that word.

2.  He loops the letter l.  The second last letter of that word isn't looped.

3.  This is a standard legal phrase.  Put this into a search engine: "trusts intents and purposes"

To read it properly, you have to see that the first stroke of the n is touching the e, making it look - wrongly - like ai..

To understand the phrase's meaning, read intentions for intents.

Offline mezentia

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Re: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will
« Reply #22 on: Monday 19 October 20 10:00 BST (UK) »
I'm now nearly half way through this will, and I've found another example of this phrase, one that is slightly clearer than the initial instance. I now think actually that intents is the right interpretation. Certainly the final letter does not have the loop on the l as can been seen elsewhere, but does have an inclined upstroke as used on the t elsewhere, and there is clearly only a single dot over the initial i.

There are marginal notes on the image "Interlined on Origl" which means that I'm working from an image of a copy. I checked on the National Archives site and found another copy there, but it is a copy and the image quality is not nearly as good as the one on Ancestry. Thank heavens that it was free.
Anderson - Leics., Yorks.; Attwood - Worcs., Staffs.,  Salop; Baylis - Worcs.; Beach/Bache - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Bills - Devon, Worcs.<br />Dovey - Worcs., Staff., Salop; Gill - Worcs.; Hampton - Worcs., Staffs.; Hancox/Hancocks - Worcs., Staffs.<br />Hill - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Sherwood - Worcs., Staffs.; Stonyer - Worcs., Staff., Salop, Essex<br />Woodall - Worcs., Staffs.; Potter - Essex.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will
« Reply #23 on: Monday 19 October 20 11:22 BST (UK) »
I now think actually that intents is the right interpretation

Good to see that you have come to terms with intents, in line with Horselydown's clear and careful explanation as to why this is the correct reading (reply #21).

There are marginal notes on the image "Interlined on Origl" which means that I'm working from an image of a copy. I checked on the National Archives site and found another copy there, but it is a copy and the image quality is not nearly as good as the one on Ancestry. Thank heavens that it was free.

What you are working from on Ancestry is a register copy of the will, made shortly after probate and filed in the PCC registry. These PCC will registers are now held at the National Archives in PROB 11.

The National Archives downloads (currently free) are the same copies from the will registers, but digitised from old microfilm and often of poorer quality.

References to interlineation are to the original will, which (if it survives) will be held at the National Archives in PROB 10. These original wills are not online.

Offline mezentia

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Re: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will
« Reply #24 on: Monday 19 October 20 12:16 BST (UK) »
Thank you Bookbox for your comments. The images on Ancestry, after a little change to brightness and contrast, can be made much more readable, so I'm able with a little help here and there to make good progress in transcribing this document. I'm actually using a piece of software called Transcipt  written by Jacob Boerema  and once the image is tidied up and straightened, the software works well and is a very good aid to transcribing the documents I'm working on.

As far as this will is concerned, so far there is only one reason for wanting to consult the original (if it exists, and if we ever escape from this current little issue of Covid-19) is that there is a gap on one line where a percentage interest rate should be shown. However, this is not of vital concern, although I've still just under half of the remainder to do.

When it is all done comes the next interesting challenge, and that is to try and work out what it all means! The primary intent is clearly to provide income for his wife, and legacies for his children in terms of income for his daughters and land and property for his sons. However, there are references to another will under which Joseph is a legatee (which I can't find), and his pecuniary liabilities at the death of other residents of Chatteris.
Anderson - Leics., Yorks.; Attwood - Worcs., Staffs.,  Salop; Baylis - Worcs.; Beach/Bache - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Bills - Devon, Worcs.<br />Dovey - Worcs., Staff., Salop; Gill - Worcs.; Hampton - Worcs., Staffs.; Hancox/Hancocks - Worcs., Staffs.<br />Hill - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Sherwood - Worcs., Staffs.; Stonyer - Worcs., Staff., Salop, Essex<br />Woodall - Worcs., Staffs.; Potter - Essex.

Offline mezentia

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Re: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will
« Reply #25 on: Monday 19 October 20 18:06 BST (UK) »
Here we go again: 

1.   all my funeral and testamentary expenses and the legacy of fifty pounds hereinbefore
2.   bequeathed to my said wife and also the [____] fees and expenses payable for the [___]-
3.   on of my said trustees or trustee to such of my estates hereinbefore devised as are of copy-
4.   hold or customary tenure and the residue of the said monies (if any) I give and beq-

Help to fill in the gaps, please.
Anderson - Leics., Yorks.; Attwood - Worcs., Staffs.,  Salop; Baylis - Worcs.; Beach/Bache - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Bills - Devon, Worcs.<br />Dovey - Worcs., Staff., Salop; Gill - Worcs.; Hampton - Worcs., Staffs.; Hancox/Hancocks - Worcs., Staffs.<br />Hill - Worcs., Staffs., Salop; Sherwood - Worcs., Staffs.; Stonyer - Worcs., Staff., Salop, Essex<br />Woodall - Worcs., Staffs.; Potter - Essex.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Joseph Saberton Saberton's will
« Reply #26 on: Monday 19 October 20 18:29 BST (UK) »
... fines fees and expences ...

... admissi-
on ...
(split over 2 lines)