Author Topic: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885  (Read 1053 times)

Offline nellie d

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Re: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 15 October 20 23:29 BST (UK) »
Nellie d, you say he "married 3 women" do you have any evidence he actually married any of them. How have you established his approx birth year please, do you know when he died?

Thanks 

John

With the latest info from Ladyhawk, I am starting to think that maybe John was right...did he actually marry his first two “wives”. We know he married Emily Freeman abd Georgina Skeet, but Lois Clark and now, possibly, Mary too! What a scoundrel!
Looks like he dropped Mary and three children to go off with Lois!
Women certainly had a tough time back then.  :(
Mayhew,Birch,Coates,Norman - Suffolk
Masters - Somerset
Richardson, Masters, Langridge, Dyer, Chambers - Sussex
Dyer, Luscombe, Hurrell - Devon
Chambers - Brecon
Lambden, Hawkins - Berkshire
Biggs, Cooper, Druce, Hedges, Haywood, Francis,Ward, Skidmore, Pinfold, Dorn, Gardener, Hopgood - Oxfordshire
Francis, Clarke - Lambeth/Surrey
Rowland, Emmett, Lockhart - Southwark/Middlesex
Simpson, Exall, Mann, Frisby,  - Kent
Ward, Teasdale, Smalwood - Yorkshire
Tomkins, Bayliss - Warwickshire

Offline nellie d

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Re: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 15 October 20 23:32 BST (UK) »
Thank you johnhood, kanscar, Ladyhawk and heywood.  :-*
Mayhew,Birch,Coates,Norman - Suffolk
Masters - Somerset
Richardson, Masters, Langridge, Dyer, Chambers - Sussex
Dyer, Luscombe, Hurrell - Devon
Chambers - Brecon
Lambden, Hawkins - Berkshire
Biggs, Cooper, Druce, Hedges, Haywood, Francis,Ward, Skidmore, Pinfold, Dorn, Gardener, Hopgood - Oxfordshire
Francis, Clarke - Lambeth/Surrey
Rowland, Emmett, Lockhart - Southwark/Middlesex
Simpson, Exall, Mann, Frisby,  - Kent
Ward, Teasdale, Smalwood - Yorkshire
Tomkins, Bayliss - Warwickshire

Online heywood

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Re: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 15 October 20 23:47 BST (UK) »


There’s also this baptism but Joseph’s name has been crossed out

Amy Louise Hillier
Born 29 Jan 1885
Baptism 1 Nov 1885 Saint Clement, Eastcheap, City of London
Father:   Joseph Hillier
Mother:   Mary Hillier, dressmaker, 15 Swan Lane
London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1917

There are these deaths:

Mary Jane Hillier b 1855 died September quarter 1886 St Olave Southwark

Amy Louise Hillier b 1885 died September quarter 1887 Pancras 
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline johnhood

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Re: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885
« Reply #30 on: Friday 16 October 20 09:44 BST (UK) »
Good morning, firstly to say I have and continue to enjoy this post and the great efforts made by Ladyhawk, Heywood and others in finding some great facts. I feel like I want to go out and buy a white board and be  a true detective with all the info that is arising. That said it does open more questions than answers at present. Who is Francis Joseph Francis born c1850. I have to go out for the day sadly so cannot contribute anything today but would like to add to the mix with a couple of things that require further looking at.

Firstly it appears on the face of it that Mary Jane Hillier was born c 1855 and died 1886. Whilst it appears 2 births are recorded with MMN Hillier and she died as Hillier is it possible she was already married. Below marriage ref needs further investigation, is it "our" Mary Jane" and are there births for 2 children either Clarke/Coghlan with mmn Hilleier?

Marriages Mar 1880 
CLARKE    Edward Pickering        Lambeth    1d   647    
Coghlan    Patrick Francis        Lambeth    1d   647    
HILLIER    Mary Jane        Lambeth    1d   647    
Neary    Josephina        Lambeth    1d   647    
Neary    Josephine        Lambeth    1d   647    

Secondly I have a feeling (not always to be trusted of course) that Ernest William Francis may
have married either as a widower or single man in 1930 to Mary Louisa Dennett, ref below.

Marriages Mar 1930   
Dennett    Mary L    Francis    Camberwell    1d   1041    
Francis    Ernest W    Dennett    Camberwell    1d   1041    

I can only find one ref for them in 1931 electoral reg at 4 Ondine Road, Southwark, Camberwell.

With regard to both above mentioned 2 marriages I cannot find any details, other's might.
Please forgive my lack of participation today.

John
HOOD- STAFFORDSHIRE/LONDON/AUSTRALIA
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Offline nellie d

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Re: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885
« Reply #31 on: Friday 16 October 20 10:45 BST (UK) »
Thank you John.
I truly do appreciate the time and effort taken by you all, John, Ladyhawk, heywood, Dundee, kanskar Carole W and Mckha489 to help with this puzzle.
I knew my gt gt grandfather had a bit of a reputation...and this seems to be proving it.
Poor Mary, left in the lurch, having to admit herself and three children to the workhouse, where she gave birth to a fourth. He meanwhile had another woman who was heavily pregnant with his son. She died, so he camped out with yet another young woman!
Assuming, of course, that it is the same man, but it is looking quite likely.
Patience has never been my strong point and I am learning that sometimes, things are not as they first appear and that I need to research more thoroughly and cross reference before coming to a definitive conclusion.
I like your idea with a white board... ;) :)
Mayhew,Birch,Coates,Norman - Suffolk
Masters - Somerset
Richardson, Masters, Langridge, Dyer, Chambers - Sussex
Dyer, Luscombe, Hurrell - Devon
Chambers - Brecon
Lambden, Hawkins - Berkshire
Biggs, Cooper, Druce, Hedges, Haywood, Francis,Ward, Skidmore, Pinfold, Dorn, Gardener, Hopgood - Oxfordshire
Francis, Clarke - Lambeth/Surrey
Rowland, Emmett, Lockhart - Southwark/Middlesex
Simpson, Exall, Mann, Frisby,  - Kent
Ward, Teasdale, Smalwood - Yorkshire
Tomkins, Bayliss - Warwickshire

Offline mckha489

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Re: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885
« Reply #32 on: Friday 16 October 20 10:54 BST (UK) »
Re John’s post.
Mary Jane Hillier married Edward Pickering Clarke. 
They had a son Albert Edward in 1881. At his baptism Edward was a medical student.
Apparently, but I cannot see the death, Edward died 3 Nov 1887 ( listed in death duty register)
Albert Edward died 1908 in England but had estate in South Africa

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3F-4L5Q?i=242&cc=2520237

His mother still alive at that time.

So they are not connected to yours
Side tracked to a friend’s very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline nellie d

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Re: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885
« Reply #33 on: Friday 16 October 20 10:57 BST (UK) »
Thank you Mckha489  :-*
Mayhew,Birch,Coates,Norman - Suffolk
Masters - Somerset
Richardson, Masters, Langridge, Dyer, Chambers - Sussex
Dyer, Luscombe, Hurrell - Devon
Chambers - Brecon
Lambden, Hawkins - Berkshire
Biggs, Cooper, Druce, Hedges, Haywood, Francis,Ward, Skidmore, Pinfold, Dorn, Gardener, Hopgood - Oxfordshire
Francis, Clarke - Lambeth/Surrey
Rowland, Emmett, Lockhart - Southwark/Middlesex
Simpson, Exall, Mann, Frisby,  - Kent
Ward, Teasdale, Smalwood - Yorkshire
Tomkins, Bayliss - Warwickshire

Online heywood

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Re: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885
« Reply #34 on: Friday 16 October 20 11:39 BST (UK) »
Oh dear!

There is this Mary - can only see her in 1861 334/10/23
Living in Southwark

Mary Hillier 5 yrs b London City
Her siblings are born in Lambeth

Father Henry is a Printer
Mother Louisa

So some coincidences. I can’t find births for her and siblings nor a marriage for parents.

Henry and Louisa are in 1851 on Ancestry as Hyttyer.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline johnhood

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Re: Marriage Look Up Request Francis Joseph Francis and Lois Lydia Clark 1881-1885
« Reply #35 on: Friday 16 October 20 14:08 BST (UK) »
Hi, does this work for Grace Lilian (dob 10th June 1879) from 1939

Marriage 11th November 1905 St James Westminster.
Grace Lilian Hillier 26  spinster abode 58 Jermyn St S W father Frank Hillier occ "Compositor"

Arthur Thurtle 37 widower abode 58 Jermyn St S W occ Poor Law Officer, father William James Thurtle

Witnesses M J Butler & E Hillier

Marriage

Marriages Sep 1893 

Butler    George        Kingsclere    2c   443   
Hillier    Mary Jane        Kingsclere    2c   443   

1911 census:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQ1-D7G

Children of Arthur & Grace

THURTLE, HENRY  WILLIAM     HILLIER 
GRO Reference: 1908  S Quarter in KINGSCLERE  Volume 02C  Page 259

THURTLE, KATHLEEN  GRACE     HILLIER 
GRO Reference: 1909  D Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 01D  Page 368

THURTLE, OLIVE  EDITH     HILLIER 
GRO Reference: 1907  J Quarter in KINGSCLERE  Volume 02C  Page 262

THURTLE, ARTHUR  RODERICK     HILLIER 
GRO Reference: 1912  M Quarter in LAMBETH  Volume 01D  Page 694
(Baptised 21st July 1912 St Peter & St Paul Mitcham parents Arthur & Grace Lilian)

Step daughter who appears in 1911

THURTLE, HILDA  MILLICENT     TAYLOR 
GRO Reference: 1901  D Quarter in POPLAR  Volume 01C  Page 630
( born 19th October 1901 bap 27th November 1901 St Mathias Poplar, parents Arthur & Ada occ Poor Law Officer)

Death of Grace

Name:   Grace L Thurtle
Death Age:   77
Birth Date:   abt 1880
Registration Date:   Jul 1957
[Aug 1957]
[Sep 1957]
Registration Quarter:   Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District:   Surrey North eastern
Inferred County:   Surrey
Volume:   5g
Page:   496

and burial

Name:   Grace Thurtle
Register Type:   Burial
Death Date:   abt 1957
Burial or Cremation Date:   12 Aug 1957
Burial or Cremation Place:   Merton, London, England

John
HOOD- STAFFORDSHIRE/LONDON/AUSTRALIA
WALKER-LONDON
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