Author Topic: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)  (Read 1083 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
« Reply #36 on: Friday 16 October 20 12:07 BST (UK) »
Thanks to all the posts so far ... much appreciated.

To brigidmac:
"I dont know if it will help your search but did you know that Daisy and Peggy are both used as short forms for Margaret".
- I was aware of the use of Peggy for Margaret but not Daisy, so thanks for that.

To wivenhoe:
"What is on the death certificate that enables you to identify these two events to be for the same woman?"
- I don't have a formal DC. I have a full transcription from a NSW Transcription agent. The Index references (853/1939) are the same

"How did this death attract your interest?"
- I'm assisting a good friend with his family research. Daisy is his grandmother on the Roberts side and while he never met her, he is keen to find out more about her.

"The next record I can find of Daisy is in the Aust. Electoral Rolls in Sydney in 1936 & 1937."
What name are you seeing on the electoral roll?"
- Daisy Veronica Roberts, Bumborah Point, Yarra Bay; Occupation HD. It's the same info on both rolls.

"From the death certificate....can you please list all the information. It would be useful to see what else the informant knew.  Can you be sure to indicate if some headings are left blank.....shown as a dash...."unknown" is written."

Here's the DC Transcription Info (verbatim):
Registration No. - 00853.
Date of Death - 3 Mar 1939.
Place of Death - The Prince Henry Hospital, Little Bay, Municipality of Randwick, Late of Yarra Bay, Municipality of Randwick.
Name - Daisy Veronica Roberts;. Also known as Peggy Lamerts (sic).
Occupation - Left blank.
Sex - Female.
Age - 36.
Cause of Death - Pulmonary Tuberculosis, Periferal (sic) Neuritis, Cardiac Failure.
Duration - Admitted to Hospital 24 Feb 1939.
Medical Attendant - R.R. Bye; 3 Mar 1939.
Father - James David Sketchley.
Father's Occupation - Butcher.
Mother - Maiden Name - Annie (surname not listed).
Informant - A. McWhinney, Clerk, The Prince Henry Hospital; Registered 10 Mar 1939, Redfern.
When Buried - 7 Mar 1939.
Where Buried - Church of England Cemetery, Botany.
Undertaker - Wood, Coffill Limited.
Minister - J.F.G. Huthnance.
Religion - Church of England.
Witnesses - David Rattray; R.M. Tomlin.
Where Born - Perth, Western Australia.
Time in Colony/Sate - Left blank
Place Married - Married; Particulars unknown.
Age at Marriage - Left blank
Spouse - Left blank.
Children of Marriage - Unknown.
Other Comments - Peggy Lamerts might have been Peggy Lamerto.

"How long had Daisy been in hospital / under treatment etc?"
- Answered above.

To wivenhoe and CassT:
"Maybe you could contact the Cemetery to see if anybody else is buried in the same plot".
- Thanks, I'll do that. However, there is a Find a Grave record for Daisy which shows a photo of an unmarked grave at that plot location. Daisy's three siblings and her parents are all buried in W.A. She was estranged from the family after the divorce.

Again ... many thanks to all the responses. This is such a great forum!
... Sel

Sue's latest post prompts me to consider what  was happening that may  affect Daisy's illnesses ...

So 1939 Botany ... the Great Depression was lingering on,  many were still homeless and many others were squatting along Botany's shores ...  the community known as 'Happy Valley' were basically abandoned when in 1939 it was demolished.   There were several oral history projects in the late 1970s and into the 1980s, recording memories of people who survived the Botany Bay and Matraville camps ....  very confronting oral history.  The local public library may know where to locate hardcopy of the transcripts.

JM
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Offline jansel70

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Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
« Reply #37 on: Friday 16 October 20 22:13 BST (UK) »
Whew!! This topic has taken on a life of its own, and we (me, together with my good friend who I'm doing this research for) are a little overwhelmed, but so very grateful, for all the contributions. There is much to dissect here and all the observations and suggestions will take some time to follow through. With any family history research endeavour, when we get some answers, there are often more questions.
However, I think there are a few key things we have to focus on here:
- Daisy's death record states she was 'Known as Peggy Lamerto", so it would be important if we can find some additional supporting records linking Daisy to the Lamerto name.
- There is a lot of info on Victor Lamerto (La Merto etc), and his activities in the late 1930s may provide us with something.
- Daisy's AER records in 1936 & 1937 show her recorded under her own name - Daisy Veronica Roberts.
- The detail in Daisy's death record is pretty comprehensive. A fresh approach, with clear eyes to this document will be undertaken.
- A puzzle pointed out by a few of you wonderful contributors, is the connection/marriage/relationship between Victor and Elsa. Elsa arrived in Australia in 1919 under the name of Elsa Voney La Merto. Then in 1940 (not long after Daisy's death), and now as Elsa Yvonne Watson, she marries Victor. In 1942, they are jointly involved in petty primal activities. I want to pursue this a bit further.

So ..... there is much to do. But the search will continue. And many thanks, again to all who have contributed to this journey.

..... Sel

Offline jansel70

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Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 17 October 20 01:33 BST (UK) »
Small amendment to send last para of my last post:
"..... they are jointly involved in petty primal activities. I want to pursue this a bit further."

Sorry ..... this should read 'criminal' not 'primal'. My bad!!

... Sel


Offline sparrett

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Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
« Reply #39 on: Saturday 17 October 20 07:58 BST (UK) »
Back to post 1 re the divorce
Was it on grounds of adultery ?

Does your friend suspect they may have half cousins somewhere ?

Have they done DNA?

This link describes the grounds for the divorce and Daisy was the petitioner. Misconduct on Owen's part
 
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/93251580


Sue
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Offline jansel70

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Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
« Reply #40 on: Saturday 17 October 20 12:07 BST (UK) »
“Back to post 1 re the divorce
Was it on grounds of adultery ?
Does your friend suspect they may have half cousins somewhere ?
Have they done DNA?”
- My understanding is that “misconduct” was the legal inference of adultery. Owen did not defend the petition.
- Yes. There are half-cousins and contact is being made where they are still alive.
- No. DNA not undertaken ... yet. I think it’s being considered.

Thanks for your contributions, Sue. The Forum has greatly assisted in moving the FH journey forward.
...... Sel

Offline sparrett

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Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
« Reply #41 on: Sunday 18 October 20 03:13 BST (UK) »
Hi
I am sure you would have these in memoria in the newspapers of W A, but I mention them just to draw attention to the fact that at the time of placing them, the family included Daisy's name.

It may be that they knew her whereabouts or they may not have known it, but just included her anyway.

I think you could safely take the implication that they knew she was alive.

After all, the deceased sister May is mentioned as deceased.

1928
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/32247876
 
1936
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/41263880

Annoyingly (or carefully  ::)) surnames not mentioned for the married daughters.

Sue
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Offline judb

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Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
« Reply #42 on: Sunday 18 October 20 04:55 BST (UK) »
It seems that Daisy may have attended her father's funeral 30 December 1924, Karrakatta, as she is mentioned as a mourner in this account of the funeral.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/82860443

Judith
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Offline jansel70

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Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
« Reply #43 on: Sunday 18 October 20 13:31 BST (UK) »
Sue & Judith .... thanks to you both for continuing with your input. I've had a weekend catching up with family - very important during these strange Covid times.

I had seen the 1924 Funeral notice, but not the 1928 & 1936 In Memoriam notices. It seems I need to do a bit more work on my Sketchley searches in Trove. Thank you, Sue, for drawing these to my attention. I agree with your thinking that at the very least then family knew that Daisy was still alive in 1928 & 1936.

FYI - We are currently working our way through two of Daisy's siblings, Amelia and James to try and ascertain and make contact with any living descendants (we understand that Lily did not marry). In addition, Owen Roberts had three children from his second relationship Margaret (Madge) Ryan - she was the 'other woman' in the Divorce - who also bought one child to the relationship, and we are also working through that line. There has been some success connecting with a descendant from the latter, but this has not provided any additional info about Daisy. It seems that not long after the divorce Daisy became estranged from the family. So it is useful to know that in 1936, while Daisy was now in Sydney (according to AER records), she was at least still in the family's thoughts.

Many thanks, again, for all your input. It is really valued.

... Sel