Author Topic: Frear Gibson and his second marriage  (Read 244 times)

Offline olympus593

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Frear Gibson and his second marriage
« on: Saturday 17 October 20 12:12 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone. I have just received a marriage certificate that I ordered. I am hoping you can share your opinion on it and what you would do if you were in my position.

My relative is Frear Gibson who was born in Norton/Malton in 1857.

Frear married Eliza Bainbridge (b 1862 – d TBC) in Hartlepool in 1888.

The most recent census I have showing them living together is 1911 where the couple were living at 51 51 Trewhitt Road, Newcastle Upon Tyne.

The marriage certificate

I believe Frear Gibson married again in 1915.

He married a Mary Simpson Reekie, née Culley (b 1871 – d 1938) in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1915.
I have to say I am pretty confident this is him, I will explain why. The birth date for Frear Gibson is only out by a few years, marriage certificate lists his birth as 1861. As far as I can tell having search BMD and GRO there was only one Frear Gibson in the time we are looking at.

His occupation checks out. I know that he was a grocer all his life; the marriage certificate lists his occupation as ‘provision merchant’s manager’.

His father is listed as ‘Thomas Gibson, leather merchant.’ His father was indeed Thomas Gibson who was a tanner all of his life.

Frear is listed as ‘bachelor’ which has then been crossed out and replaced by ‘widower.’

The only thing that appears to be wrong is his father, Thomas, has not been marked as deceased. As my Thomas was born in abt. 1808 he would certainly be dead. Frear’s wife’s father is marked as deceased.

I also have a 1939 census showing this Frear living with his mother in law, son in law, daughter in law. His occupation is listed as ‘retired grocer’ and he is widowed once more.

What I would like to know is would you accept this marriage certificate based on all the matches? Please let me know what you think.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Frear Gibson and his second marriage
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 17 October 20 12:20 BST (UK) »

The only thing that appears to be wrong is his father, Thomas, has not been marked as deceased. As my Thomas was born in abt. 1808 he would certainly be dead. Frear’s wife’s father is marked as deceased.


Whether or not a father is deceased would not generally be asked by someone completing a marriage certificate.  Even when it does state deceased this information is not reliable.
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Offline olympus593

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Re: Frear Gibson and his second marriage
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 17 October 20 12:39 BST (UK) »
Thanks Rosie. Good to know for future certificates.


Offline philipsearching

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Re: Frear Gibson and his second marriage
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 17 October 20 12:44 BST (UK) »
The only thing that appears to be wrong is his father, Thomas, has not been marked as deceased. As my Thomas was born in abt. 1808 he would certainly be dead. Frear’s wife’s father is marked as deceased.

Whether or not a father is deceased would not generally be asked by someone completing a marriage certificate.  Even when it does state deceased this information is not reliable.

Agreed.  When I married, I gave my father's name and said he was deceased - the registrar responded: "that's irrelevant - what was his occupation?"  My marriage certificate does not have the word deceased on it.  So, - some registrars do, some don't!
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

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Offline rosie99

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Re: Frear Gibson and his second marriage
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 17 October 20 13:19 BST (UK) »
Having 'deceased' on a certificate often also covers up a fictitious father, I certainly have a certificate that has this where the person was illegitimate
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Offline Annie65115

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Re: Frear Gibson and his second marriage
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 17 October 20 14:48 BST (UK) »
-- or a "disowned" father as happened in my tree in the 1930s. The father had left the family and was declared "deceased" on his daughter's marriage cert, although he was living barely 2 miles away. I suspect they meant "dead to us"!
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Leic)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline olympus593

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Re: Frear Gibson and his second marriage
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 17 October 20 15:09 BST (UK) »
Thank you to everyone for all your contributions, it is so interesting. I now feel confident that this is my relative  :)

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Frear Gibson and his second marriage
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 18 October 20 06:47 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone. I have just received a marriage certificate that I ordered. I am hoping you can share your opinion on it and what you would do if you were in my position.

My relative is Frear Gibson who was born in Norton/Malton in 1857.

Frear married Eliza Bainbridge (b 1862 – d TBC) in Hartlepool in 1888.

The most recent census I have showing them living together is 1911 where the couple were living at 51 51 Trewhitt Road, Newcastle Upon Tyne.

The marriage certificate

I believe Frear Gibson married again in 1915.

He married a Mary Simpson Reekie, née Culley (b 1871 – d 1938) in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1915.
I have to say I am pretty confident this is him, I will explain why. The birth date for Frear Gibson is only out by a few years, marriage certificate lists his birth as 1861. As far as I can tell having search BMD and GRO there was only one Frear Gibson in the time we are looking at.

His occupation checks out. I know that he was a grocer all his life; the marriage certificate lists his occupation as ‘provision merchant’s manager’.

His father is listed as ‘Thomas Gibson, leather merchant.’ His father was indeed Thomas Gibson who was a tanner all of his life.

Frear is listed as ‘bachelor’ which has then been crossed out and replaced by ‘widower.’

The only thing that appears to be wrong is his father, Thomas, has not been marked as deceased. As my Thomas was born in abt. 1808 he would certainly be dead. Frear’s wife’s father is marked as deceased.

I also have a 1939 census showing this Frear living with his mother in law, son in law, daughter in law. His occupation is listed as ‘retired grocer’ and he is widowed once more.

What I would like to know is would you accept this marriage certificate based on all the matches? Please let me know what you think.

If you search for Wills Probate Registry on the internet and find the gov.uk website and check the 1940 Index yourself for free (to check I have read the details right), you can buy a copy of the Probate for £1.50.

Frear Gibson of 16 Park Road, East Ashington, Northumberland, who died 8th April 1940 Probate Newcastle upon Tyne 16th May to James Alan Reekie School Teacher.

If he is your relative and you go to GRO at gov.uk you should be able to buy a Copy Death Certificate and confirm his death age and other details given by the Informant, Informant's name and often Informant's address if different to place of death also given.

For all I know the Informant at Death might be Reekie or might be family, unless a Coroner or someone else registered. In Family History all these might be clues, e.g. a Nurse, may tell us the person was already ill and could afford a Nurse if they died at home.
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Witness names on Marriage Certificates (including 2nd or 3rd Marriages) might be relatives, or from previous or earlier or other Family Tree marriages. Sometimes they are church employees, but without looking, you'll never know.

My Dad never gave me his Father's full names and so I asked Dad to see his Birth Certificate and my Grandfather also had two middle names! No wonder I couldn't get anywhere with the verbal information from my Dad which all turned out to be true.

Some people who work backward, I find they have not even got their own Birth Certificate! A fatal mistake not to check everything out and for clues too, addresses, witnesses (some are relatives, others not).

People such as Visitors and occasionally Lodgers can be relatives, or linked to family, or related to earlier witnesses at weddings, or previously linked to family businesses.

Sometimes a family member does not always give you full verbal information as they don't want you poking about researching a 20th Century tragic family event.

My Father was right, my Grandfather was killed in an Air Crash, but because Dad had not given me his Father's full names, I was looking at the wrong Air Crash and the wrong chap in the correct year, who also happened to have three of my Father's names in the same order, but was NOT even related to my family.

Assume nothing, because 66 million live here and when searching I find loads of coincidences and the correct one must be fully verified with the official Copy paperwork.
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One of the sites I use gives 84 results for an 80 year (1900 -/+ 40 years) period for "Frear Gibson".

Someone of that name has also lived in the Parish of Sculcoates, Hull, Yorkshire (transcribed as 1901 Electorate Roll, name & address printed as Gibson, Frear, 11 George Grove (under Northumberland Avenue at top of page).

But ... "Part of Carlisle" Cumberland 1901 Census, Frear Gibson.

My first question I'd want to know ... are they the same person and what other documents might show this address?

If he owned his own house, Yorkshire also has several surviving Property Registries.

Mark

Offline garstonite

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Re: Frear Gibson and his second marriage
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 18 October 20 09:42 BST (UK) »
were you aware that in 1901 census Frear / Eliza and son Arthur aged 16 were running a Grocers Shop AND HE SAYS HE WAS BORN IN 1862 - not 1857?
92, Grocer Shop, Denton St
Carlisle
Carlisle Caldewgate (Part Of), Cumberland
Household Members:    
Frear Gibson (39, Male)
Eliza Gibson (36, Female)
Arthur Gibson (16, Male)
Frear Gibson was a man born in 1862 in Norton Yorkshire Carlisle Caldewgate (Part Of). During the 1901 UK Census he was 39 years old and lived in Cumberland. He appears as the head of his house in the 1901 UK Census.
copied from Rootspoint
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford