Solid Granite Wall: James McGilveray or McGillivray, Shoemaker in Aberdeen

[clairemmain]

Afternoon all,

First time posting here, I'm hoping for some advice on the above brick wall, which I've been banging my head against for some time now. 

I'm trying to trace my 4x great-grandparents, but having limited success.  I'll lay out what I have below, starting with my 3x great-grandfather James McGilveray.  First off, the variation in spellings is wild, I'm using McGilveray for 3GG James because it seems to be what was used in his lifetime, though his kids used 'McGillivray' which has then continued down to present day.

James McGilveray (3GG)
BORN c. 1837 in Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire (consistent across records)

MARRIAGE (1) to Elspet Duguid (29 Mar 1842 - 22 Mar 1868), married 21 Dec 1865 at New Deer (GROS 1865 225/26)
Their short marriage bore two kids.  Alexander Duguid McGillivray (26 Mar 1866 - 16 Apr 1902) and Alexander William Rankine McGillivray (9 Sep 1867 - 21 Dec 1935).  When Elsie died, both the boys went to stay with relatives of hers.  Alexander to his grandfather William Duguid's farm, and Arthur (my 2xGG) to his aunt and uncle James and Elizabeth Bowie née Duguid.

MARRIAGE (2) to Isabella Robertson (07 Jan 1855 - 19 Jan 1932), married 18 Jun 1881 at New Deer (GROS 1881 225/15)
Isabella and James had 5 children: Jane, Bella, James, William, and Margaret.  Nothing I can find relating to this marriage or kids sheds any light on James' early life or parents, but it is worth noting that his 1881 marriage is the first record where he states that both parents are deceased.

DIED 22 Aug 1917 in New Deer, Aberdeenshire (GROS 1917 225/47)
OBITUARY Aberdeen Daily Journal, 23 Aug 1917
BURIAL New Deer Cemetery


On all the above records, James' parents are listed as James McGillivray (or variation), Shoemaker, and Margaret McGillivray née Hay.

CENSUS RECORDS
1841 There are two censuses in Aberdeen for a 3 year old James McGilveray or McGillivray.  One with Margaret McGillivray, 25, Shoebuilder living on Flour Mill Brae (1841 Census 168/A 13/ 33) and one with Margaret Hay, 30, Shoebuilder on George Street (1841 Census 168/A 23/ 3).  Neither have an elder James McGillivray listed.  I suspect these are both James and his mother, and one consisted of details given by a neighbour.
1851 As per messages below, seems likely to be Census 210/ 7/ 14, living in King Edward as a servant with a similarly aged girl, Ann Hay ?cousin.
1861 Living in New Deer, unmarried ploughman working for Elsie's sister and her husband, prior to their marriage.  Listed as James McGillen or McGillev, but I'm confident this is him given the circumstances (1861 Census 225/ 7/ 1)
1871 Living in Millbrex, working as Farm Servant, listed widowed.  Misindexed as 'GILLIVRAY' (1871 Census 222/B 2/ 13)
1881 Living in Millbrex, working as Farm Servant, listed widowed (1881 Census 222/B 2/ 5)
1891 Living in New Deer w. Isabella, four eldest children, and a nephew from Isabella's side of the family (1891 Census 225/ 5/ 11)
1901 Living in New Deer w. Isabella and two youngest children (1901 Census 225/ 5/ 3)
1911 Living in New Deer w. Isabella (1911 Census 225/ 5/ 19)

Worth noting that at the time of the 1841 and 1851 censuses there is a James and Margaret McGillivray née Ross living in Aberdeen, I do not believe this couple are his parents, and they have a son James whose age does not correlate with my 3GG James.

I cannot find the elder James McGillivray on any census, and I cannot find Margaret McGillivray née Hay on any further censuses after 1841.  At her sons marriage in 1865, he states Margaret is deceased.

Now, I do have a marriage certificate for a James McGillivray, shoemaker, and Margaret Hay in Aberdeen on 30 Apr 1833 (30/04/1833 168/A 290 62).  Given everything above, it seems likely this is them.  It gives Margaret's father as James Hay, weaver, in Strichen and witnesses as James and Peter Hay, both weavers living in Aberdeen.  However, I cannot seem to gain any further information on the couple past this point.  I've checked directories for both McGillivray as a shoemaker, and the Hay's as weavers for the relevant periods but I can't seem to dredge anything up.  I'm hoping if I can find younger James on the 1851 census that whoever he's residing with will give me enough traction to break this down.

And so, I turn to you!  Apologies for the information download, but does anyone have any ideas?  I feel I've been staring at this on and off for so long that I must be missing something.  Any help or advice greatly appreciated!

[ev]

Hi , welcome to RC 

FreeCEN 1851 Census transcription has a James McGillivray , age 13 , out servant , born Aberdeen Aberdeenshire , at Crudie Farm King Edward.
The only thing that might be a clue , also there is -
Ann Hay , age 14 , out servant , born Cuminestown Aberdeenshire.


ev

Added -
Thank you for giving all the information     

[clairemmain]

Hi , welcome to RC 

FreeCEN 1851 Census transcription has a James McGillivray , age 13 , out servant , born Aberdeen Aberdeenshire , at Crudie Farm King Edward.
The only thing that might be a clue , also there is -
Ann Hay , age 14 , out servant , born Cuminestown Aberdeenshire.

Funnily enough I'm looking at that as we speak!  Someone on another forum pointed it out to me, not quite sure how I missed it.  Unfortunately, doesn't add a great deal to the hunt, but it's an extra piece of the puzzle!

EDIT:  Thanks for spotting it!

[flst]

Just wondering why you think the 2 1841 censuses are for the same people? If Margaret was a widow then it was common to use her maiden name. This would explain why her husband is not with her on the census.
flst

[clairemmain]

Just wondering why you think the 2 1841 censuses are for the same people? If Margaret was a widow then it was common to use her maiden name. This would explain why her husband is not with her on the census.
flst

I don't believe Margaret was a widow in 1841, as when her son got married in 1865 he listed Margaret as deceased and Jame as alive.  I suspect they're the same as I find it unlikely (not impossible, granted) that there would be two women called Margaret, both Shoebinders, of similar age, living with a 3 year old called James McGillivray especially since one is Margaret McGillivray (her married name) and one is Margaret Hay (her maiden name).

Like a lot of things with this family, strong suspicions lead the way!

[GR2]

The Ann Hay at Crudie in the 1851 census is not very far away, at Cook, King Edward, in 1841:

Jannet McIntosh, 65, crofter
Peter Angus, 28, Ag. Lab.
Catherine Angus, 20
Ann Hay, 5

[clairemmain]

The Ann Hay at Crudie in the 1851 census is not very far away, at Cook, King Edward, in 1841:

Jannet McIntosh, 65, crofter
Peter Angus, 28, Ag. Lab.
Catherine Angus, 20
Ann Hay, 5

Yeah, I'm having a wee look at that just now.  Thanks for the spot!  Catherine's maiden name is also Hay.

So I tracked Ann a bit and found her parents to be William Hay and Helen Kidd.  Helen died in 1855, at the time married to her second husband George Norie.  Timeline of that family from what I can see so far is...

William Hay and Helen Kidd marry, 1832.
Ann Hay born c. 1837.
At some point between in here, William must have died.
Helen marries George Norie, 1840.
1841 census has Helen living with George and her elder daughter, Isabel.  Ann is living with Peter Angus and Catherine Angus nee Hay, who I suspect is William's sister.
Helen dies 1855.

However, for any of this to make sense I need to find parents for Catherine and/or William Hay - which I am struggling to do.

[flst]

Who were the witnesses at the first marriage in 1865?
flst

[clairemmain]

Who were the witnesses at the first marriage in 1865?
flst

George Mitchell and John Whyte.  Neither surname has come up in the family elsewhere.