Author Topic: David Ross  (Read 1269 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: David Ross
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 22 October 20 23:14 BST (UK) »
Quote from: 1JC link=topic=839048.msg7048409#mtevsg7048409 date=1603392934
One thing that has been bothering me is the wording in the 20 June 1828 School Wynd Kirk session record.  “Johan Fife, she confessed that she had been guilty of fornication and stated that David Ross an unmarried man was the father of the child, a statement it was ascertained quite correct. She was examined professed her repentance she was then admonished & appointed her to be publicly rebuked & restored”.
There were no subsequent entries for either David or Johan (Joan)
It seemed odd that David did not front up and I wonder what "a statement it was ascertained guite correct" means.
The kirk sessions went to some lengths to get evidence, rather than just take the girl's word for it. They would have questioned relatives, friends and neighbours to see if anyone had noticed any goings on. Not all kirk sessions included all the detail in their minutes, but some did. The following is an example from the New Monkland kirk session, whose minutes contain just about every shred of information they could extract from witnesses (I've reduced their surnames to initials):

New Monkland, 6th June 1831. Compeared Rebecca S from Airdrie confessing that she was with child in fornication and having been solemnly charged and interrogated she accused George W son of John W in Dalmacoulter as the person guilty with her and the father of her child. Being farther interrogated she stated that this child was begotten in the beginning of January last in Bridenhill Barn where she was then living. George W was ordered to be cited to next Meeting of Session to which Rebecca S was cited apud acta. [New Monkland Kirk Session Minutes, National Archives of Scotland CH2/685/3/45]

4th July 1831. Rebekah S and George W having been called according to their citation she only appeared. George W was ordered to be cited to next Meeting of Session for the second time to which Rebekah S was summoned apud acta. [New Monkland Kirk Session Minutes, National Archives of Scotland CH2/685/3/46]
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: David Ross
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 22 October 20 23:15 BST (UK) »
Continued from previous post as it was too long

2d Augt 1831. Rebekah S and George W having been called according to their citation both appeared and having been confronted together and George W having heard Rebekah S's accusation of date the 6th June last and having been solemnly charged and interrogated denied all guilt with her. Rebekah S was ordered to give in a List of witnesses by which she intended to prove her charge in order that they may be called to next meeting of Session to which Rebekah S and George W were cited apud acta. [New Monkland Kirk Session Minutes, National Archives of Scotland CH2/685/3/47]

5th Septr 1831. George W and Rebekah S having been called according to their citation she only appeared. The Officer reported that he had summoned John Shaw Junr Cloth Mercht in Airdrie Isabella Tennant at Bridenhill Elizth Motherwell and Jane Jack both at Glenmavis and Archd Cameron and Charles Mitchell as witnesses in this case. The Session proceeded to take their evidence.
Compeared John Shaw Junr Cloth Mercht in Airdrie married 21 years of age and having been solemnly sworn and purged of malice and partial counsel deponed that one evening in the month of January last about eight or nine of clock George W and Rebekah S met in his shop in Airdrie. The Dep(onen)t went along with them to Bridenhill. That in their way they called at John Motherwell's in Glenmavis and had some ale and whiskey. That afterwards they went forward to Bridenhill. That no persons was with them except them three. That the Dept saw George W and Rebekah S go into Bridenhill Barn. That they remained in the Barn together for more than two hours. That they had no light in the Barn and that it was dark all the time. Depones that he saw them both go in and come out. That when they Came out Rebekah S came out a little time before George S. Farther depones that when George W and the Dept were on the road home he the Dept asked George W why Rebekah S had left him when George W replied that he had to do with her in the Barn. Depones that all this is truth so he shall answer. John Shaw Junr; James Begg Mod(erato)r.
Compeared Isabella Tennent from Bridenhill unmarried sixteen years of age and upwards and having been solemnly sworn and purged of malice and partial counsel deponed that one evening in January last the Dept saw George W and Rebekah S go into the barn at Bridenhill. That is was after supper time. That it was dark and that they had no candle. That they remained a very considerable time together perhaps an hour or two. That some few weeks after this in her view Rebekah S who was then serving at Bridenhill told the Dept that she was with child to George W. Depones that all this is truth as she shall answer. Isabella Tennent; James Begg Modr.
Compeared Elizabeth Motherwell wife of John Motherwell Change keeper at Glenmavis fifty years of age and and having been solemnly sworn and purged of malice and partial counsel deponed That on one evening a short time after New Years day last John Shaw George W and Rebekah S came into her house at Glenmavis and had a bottle of Beer and a dram together. That it was between ten and eleven o Clock at night. That they did not stay above half an hour when they went all away together. Depones that she cannot write but that all this is truth as she shall answer. James Begg Modr.
Compeared Jane Jack Servant with John Motherwell Change keeper at Glenmavis unmarried aged sixteen years and having been solemnly sworn and purged of malice and partial counsel deponed that one evening before Whitsunday last George W Rebekah S and other two men came to their house about Eleven o'Clock at night. That her master and Mistress were in bed and that she the Dept ran to let them in. That they said they had come from Bridenhill. That they remained in their house till after two o Clock in the morning. Depones that she served them and that they had three half mutckins of Whisky and a bottle of strong Beer. That George W was considered as a lad of Rebekah S's and that when she went to draw the reckoning George W was sitting next to her with his arm either about her neck or over the back of her Chair. Depones that she asked Rebekah S that night who the other two were when she replied that they were acquaintances of George W's but did not mention their names. Depones that all this is truth as she shall answer. Jane Jack; James Begg Modr.
The Session having considered this evidence found George W guilty of fornication with Rebekah S. [New Monkland Kirk Session Minutes, National Archives of Scotland CH2/685/3/47-8]


So this could have been a similar case, where the kirk session heard some similar evidence that convinced them that Johan Fife's accusation was correct, even if David Ross had absconded by That time.

Also, as I alluded to before, if David Ross was not a member of the same congregation the session would have been powerless to take any action against him.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline 1JC

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Re: David Ross
« Reply #20 on: Friday 23 October 20 02:51 BST (UK) »
Thanks Neale1961. The Ross & Robertson, Lithographic Printers does look interesting. I have not been able to find out anything about them yet.
I have attached the death record for the David Ross who died in 1844 aged 40. Not sure it helps.

Thanks Forfarian. I love reading those Kirk session minutes. Last year when I was in Scotland I spent time at many of the archives reading through the Kirk records and was always diverted reading the unfolding stories. I had hoped that the School Wynd records would have provided details about David, but no such luck.