A question of Birch's

[maddys52]

I think Elizabeth was telling a bit of a porkie about her age on her marriage - looks like she was baptised 30 April 1820 at St. Peters Liverpool (parents Christopher and Jane).

She married William ORRELL on 21 Oct 1838 at St. Peter, Bolton-Le-Moors, Lancashire.

Then after he died I think she married John TIPPING Sept qtr 1859 Sheffield 9c/340). There are a number of possibilities for William ORRELL's death, and also a few possibilities for John TIPPING's death.

Will keep looking for them in 1871. 

[maddys52]

In case you're interested, These look like Elizabeth and William ORRELL's children:

1839  Christopher
1845  Mary Jane
1848  Matilda
1850 William Henry
1852 Hannah
1855  Thomas
1858 James William

Elizabeth TIPPING is on the 1861 census at Sheffield Park with children Mary Ann (15), Thomas (5) and James (3) ORRELL.  (RG 9/3493 pg 42)

[emjayf]

In case you're interested, These look like Elizabeth and William ORRELL's children:

1839  Christopher
1845  Mary Jane
1848  Matilda
1850 William Henry
1852 Hannah
1855  Thomas
1858 James William

Elizabeth TIPPING is on the 1861 census at Sheffield Park with children Mary Ann (15), Thomas (5) and James (3) ORRELL.  (RG 9/3493 pg 42)

What IS interesting is what happened to her children after she married Henry in 1866?! Initially I thought "has she dumped them to get remarried!?"  But I guess the missing 1871 census might be where Elizabeth and her children are. Granted Mary Ann (25) and Thomas (15) might have left home. But I am sure at 13 James Orrell would still be at home? Who knows. Anyhow I am getting sidetracked. Easy to do with this kind of thing! 🤪

MJ

[maddys52]

Yes, that's what I thought too, looking for the children might lead to Elizabeth in 1871, I ran out of time yesterday, couldn't find them easily. Will have another look later toay.

Yes, very easy to get distracted and sidetracked!

[emjayf]

Hi all, I cannot see where someone posted it but a while ago I was curious to find where my relation John Fouldes (born 1837 on Oxton) was in 1851.

In 1841 I have him (age 4 as "Foulds") on a census (Forest Lane, Oxton, Notts) along with father John Foulds (35 Wheelwright), mother Mary Foulds (35) and siblings Elizabeth (15), Henry (10), Thomas (6) and James (7 months).
Yet he is not with his family in 1851.
John (48) is with new wife Martha (40) and kids Elizabeth (24), Thomas (15), James (10) and nephew George Herod (4).

Now someone on here suggested he might be age 12 living with his Aunt Sarah Muller/Miller (nee
Foulds) & Uncle John
Muller/Miller.
It seemed to make some sense  BUT Sarah was sister to James Fouldes (John Foulds' Grandad, born in 1796). She had married John Muller/Miller in Beeston (22/1815) but this would make him their GREAT nephew and not just nephew.

I then started using Familysearch.org
and they offered  up:
John Foulds (Nephew) age 12 born in Oxton, Nottinghamshire
Living with:
Jane Foster (Servant) age 21 born in Flintham, Nottinghamshire
And
William Hawood (Servant) age 17 born in Calverton, Nottinghamshire.

So now I am not sure! I mean I know nothing of these people mentioned in the second one.  Anyone see anything that would make it not so clear as mud to me!? 

Thanks as always you lovely people!

MJ

[Jamjar]

Hi all, I cannot see where someone posted it but a while ago I was curious to find where my relation John Fouldes (born 1837 on Oxton) was in 1851.

In 1841 I have him (age 4 as "Foulds") on a census (Forest Lane, Oxton, Notts) along with father John Foulds (35 Wheelwright), mother Mary Foulds (35) and siblings Elizabeth (15), Henry (10), Thomas (6) and James (7 months).
Yet he is not with his family in 1851.
John (48) is with new wife Martha (40) and kids Elizabeth (24), Thomas (15), James (10) and nephew George Herod (4).

Now someone on here suggested he might be age 12 living with his Aunt Sarah Muller/Miller (nee
Foulds) & Uncle John
Muller/Miller.
It seemed to make some sense  BUT Sarah was sister to James Fouldes (John Foulds' Grandad, born in 1796). She had married John Muller/Miller in Beeston (22/1815) but this would make him their GREAT nephew and not just nephew.

I then started using Familysearch.org
and they offered  up:
John Foulds (Nephew) age 12 born in Oxton, Nottinghamshire
Living with:
Jane Foster (Servant) age 21 born in Flintham, Nottinghamshire
And
William Hawood (Servant) age 17 born in Calverton, Nottinghamshire.

So now I am not sure! I mean I know nothing of these people mentioned in the second one.  Anyone see anything that would make it not so clear as mud to me!? 

Thanks as always you lovely people!

MJ

1841: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7SC-8Y9

1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDY-TP2

You need to to look at page 12 of that census to see who he is with. Alternately, I’d suggest that you are looking at a sister of his father, who is married, as he isn’t in a FOULD household.

Added: Found it. Also, James aged 57:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDY-TPV

I can’t recall ever seeing ‘GREAT’ on a census.

Jamjar

[maddys52]

Yes, on pg 12 it has James FOULDS as brother-in-law to the head of the household ie John MULLER. As you said, Sarah MULLER was James' sister. As for "nephew", they didn't really make the same distinctions as we do now, so "nephew" and "grand/great-nephew" would be considered the same. (If that makes sense!)

[Jamjar]

Where is he in 1861?

I see only one fitting in 1871 and it has birth as 1839, also:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBXR-Y6T

Married:

Jun 1861 Sleaford 7a 620
FOULDS John
JACKLIN Ann

Deaths:

FOULDS, ANN  35 
GRO Reference: 1872  J Quarter in SOUTHWELL  Volume 07B  Page 216

FOULDES, JOHN  77 
GRO Reference: 1915  D Quarter in SOUTHWELL  Volume 07B  Page 627

1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-XL8L

1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4Z4Q-KMM

1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFY-3LH

1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-Q5D

Children:

FOULDS, THOMAS mmn JACKLIN 
GRO Reference: 1861  D Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS  Volume 07B  Page 253
Married:
Dec 1892 Worksop 7b 91
FOULDES Thomas
COOPER Martha Hannah
Deaths:
FOULDES, MARTHA  HANNAH  67 
GRO Reference: 1931  M Quarter in SOUTHWELL  Volume 07B  Page 682
FOULDS, THOMAS  92 
GRO Reference: 1954  J Quarter in SOUTHWELL  Volume 03C  Page 394  Occasional Copy: A
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-XVR5
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSNJ-8FX
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-QRZ

FOULDES, RICHARD mmn JACKLIN 
GRO Reference: 1864  S Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS  Volume 07B  Page 254
Married:
Sep 1890 Worksop 7b 73
FOULDES Richard
KNIGHT Harriett
Death:
FOULDES, RICHARD  44 
GRO Reference: 1909  M Quarter in NOTTINGHAM  Volume 07B  Page 276
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-X27F
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4H8Q-13Z
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSF1-9Q4
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-Q5T
Children:
FOULDES, ELLEN mmn KNIGHT 
GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 32
Death:
FOULDES, ELLEN  0 
GRO Reference: 1892  M Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 21
FOULDES, RICHARD mmn KNIGHT 
GRO Reference: 1892  D Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 36
Death:
FOULDES, RICHARD  0 
GRO Reference: 1893  S Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 16
FOULDES, HORACE mmn KNIGHT 
GRO Reference: 1895  M Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 33
Death:
FOULDES, HORACE  1 
GRO Reference: 1896  J Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 15
FOULDES, ELSIE  MAY mmn KNIGHT 
GRO Reference: 1897  J Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 19

FOULDES, HENRY mmn JACKLIN 
GRO Reference: 1867  M Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS  Volume 07B  Page 275
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSNJ-8FX
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-8P9

FOULDES, SARAH mmn JACKLIN 
GRO Reference: 1869  S Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS  Volume 07B  Page 293
Death:
FOULDES, SARAH  3 
GRO Reference: 1872  D Quarter in SOUTHWELL  Volume 07B  Page 200

FOULDS, ANN mmn JACKLIN 
GRO Reference: 1872  J Quarter in SOUTHWELL  Volume 07B  Page 318
Death:
FOULDS, ANN  0 
GRO Reference: 1872  J Quarter in SOUTHWELL  Volume 07B  Page 217

FOULDES, BURCH mmn BURCH 
GRO Reference: 1874  M Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS  Volume 07B  Page 353
Death:
FOULDES, BURCH  65 
GRO Reference: 1940  M Quarter in SOUTHWELL  Volume 07B  Page 1078

Jamjar

[maddys52]

In 1861 at Oxton

John FOULDES   58    Oxton  (wheelwright)
Martha                  50
John                      23
James                  20
George HEROD   14  (nephew) 
Mary HARVEY        5  (visitor)   Southwell
Sarah HARVEY      3   (visitor)  Southwell

RG9/2471 pg39

Modified to add:
On familysearch transcribed as FOULDER
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7DV-K3S