Suggestions on where to next to find Elizabeth Radford

[Sue Greene]

Would appreciate some suggestions on where to go next with two ladies I am trying to find more information on.
On the 1841 census Exeter (see attached) there is an Elizabeth Radford or Bradford aged 20, born in the county and a Catherine Radford aged 35 not born in the county.
They are living in the household of the Roberts family.
I have proved that Catherine Radford along with the Roberts family sailed on the ship Essex to New Zealand 1842.
The Elizabeth Radford or Bradford I think may have come to NZ with her older sister Agnes Dust on the Blenheim 1841 but she came out under another name. Elizabeth Payne. She later reverts back to the surname of Radford when she arrived in NZ as we have her marriage to William Pote.
Unfortunately, NZ records such as births deaths and marriages don’t help reveal anything more about these two ladies, such as birth places etc.
One theory we do have is in a newspaper article found is there was an Elizabeth the elder and an Elizabeth the younger were sentenced in the Devon quarter session 1835.
Elizabeth the elder was sentenced to 14 years in Aussie, Elisabeth the younger was imprisoned for 3 calendar months Though Elizabeth the elder stated she had no children I wondered if she lied so her daughter would not be transported with her, though it’s just a thought.
When Elizabeth the younger is released from prison she then goes to live with perhaps an aunt, being the Catherine Radford.
When she leaves for NZ she changes her name to Payne because she had a prison record.
I have researched the sister, or what we have been told that they were sisters. Agnes was married in Ireland to a solider James Dust. There is a possibility that the family is Irish.
What I would like to try and find is anything further that I may be able to access in Exeter about these two women.
Would be grateful for any suggestions on any other records that may be of use.
Sue Greene
New Zealand.

[goldie61]

This looks to me like ELizabeth BRADFORD, and not Radford.
The initial letters are different in the 2 surnames, and there is another letter between the initial letter and the 'a' in ELizabeth's surname.

If this is the case, and one supposes the enumerator put down the right names, I'd say it casts doubt on whether this is your Elizabeth Radford who went to New Zealand.

What area of Exeter was this?

[Sue Greene]

This looks to me like ELizabeth BRADFORD, and not Radford.
The initial letters are different in the 2 surnames, and there is another letter between the initial letter and the 'a' in ELizabeth's surname.

If this is the case, and one supposes the enumerator put down the right names, I'd say it casts doubt on whether this is your Elizabeth Radford who went to New Zealand.

What area of Exeter was this?
Hi
Thanks for the reply.
The area is St. Sidwell, Exeter.
On some documents about the sister Agnes when she married in Australia she was recorded as Bradford, and there is one document here in NZ where Elizabeth's surname was recorded as Radford or Bradford. Which does not help.
Cheers
Sue

[wivenhoe]

The purpose of your research......the outcome you are wanting.....is the origins of this Elizabeth RADFORD?


NZ BDM
1846/7   Elizabeth   RADFORD    marr.   William   POTE

Can you give all the information on the marriage certificate please.

NZ BDM births
1848/536           Pote   Elizabeth                       parents Elizabeth / William
1850/885           Pote   William Radford               parents Elizabeth / William
1852/1119   Pote   George Ashton               parents Elizabeth / William
1854/1263   Pote   Henry                       parents Elizabeth / William
1858/4448   Pote   John                               parents Elizabeth / William
1861/9579   Pote   Emma                       parents Elizabeth / William

Taranaki Herald 20 Dec 1898 p2
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TH18981220.2.8?
obit for Elizabeth DOVER formerly POTE.....

[Sue Greene]

The purpose of your research......the outcome you are wanting.....is the origins of this Elizabeth RADFORD?


NZ BDM
1846/7   Elizabeth   RADFORD    marr.   William   POTE

Can you give all the information on the marriage certificate please.
(Thank yes I have all the New Zealand information on Elizabeth plus other bits from Archives in Wellington.
The marriage has very little information as does the intentions to marry at Archives.
All we have is
Elizabeth Radford married William Pote in New Plymouth on 1 Jul 1846 at the Wesleyan Church, she is recorded as a spinster though Elizabeth did have a child named James Radford later the Pote surname was added to this child.
Wellington Independent newspaper 5 Dec. 1846) Jul. 1st At the Wesleyan Church, New Plymouth by the Rev. R. Hanson Turton. Mr William Pote to Miss Elizabeth Ratford. (Note the spelling of her surname)
Elizabeth also married Edmund Dover 1868 at the time of this marriage Elizabeth was aged 42.
Before 1880 there was a lot less information on marriages certificates in NZ.
She died 1898 in the Nelson Asylum.
There are three death notices for Elizabeth each one gives a different age.
Nelson Colonist her age is 82, Taranaki Herald her age is 84 and another paper stated her age as 89.
The death certificate nor the papers from the Nelson Asylum mention anything about her birth place or parentage.
The only thing we did find with a birth place mentioned was many years ago when there was a reunion held in New Plymouth of early settlers the family were told that Elizabeth came out on the Blenheim.
There are no Elizabeth Radford's coming to NZ the right age or right time for our Elizabeth. The only Elizabeth on the Blenheim was Elizabeth Payne or Pain that no one as yet has traced or found any further information on. I have also looked at the surgeons report she is mentioned in there as Elizabeth Pain.
I have search extensively in New Zealand have all the newspapers reports on her plus a few bits from Archives.
I have another theory is that when Agnes the sister and family return from Gibraltar where her husband James Dust was stationed as a soldier. He bought his way out of the regiment 1840, they returned to England where their daughter Emma's birth is registered 18 June 1841.
I think that James, Agnes and their two children, Elizabeth and Catherine plus the Robert's family all try to book onto the same ship but there is not enough room.
So James Agnes and children plus Elizabeth are booked onto the Blenheim Catherine and the Robert's family book onto the Essex.
Once again it's all theory, the Elizabeth on the 1841 census may not even be our Elizabeth, could just be a coincidence that there is an Elizabeth Bradford or Radford living with a Catherine Radford that came to NZ. But then you have to ask why would Catherine come all this way. Was she coming out to be with family.
That is why I am trying to see if it's possible to trace her back in England. As they say if you can't trace the direct line try going side ways.
I may be tracing a completely different line but it's worth a try to see where it may lead.
Sorry if I have gone on
Cheers

[wivenhoe]

NZ BDM
1846/7   Elizabeth   RADFORD    marr.   William   POTE

From this document....what names do you see for witnesses?....do they sign their names?

Do Elizabeth and William sign their names?

[Sue Greene]

NZ BDM
1846/7   Elizabeth   RADFORD    marr.   William   POTE

From this document....what names do you see for witnesses?....do they sign their names?

Do Elizabeth and William sign their names?

From the marriage
1846
MARRIAGE(2): On 1 July 1846 William, widower, sawyer, married Elizabeth Radford, spinster,
in the Weslyan Chapel, New Plymouth, by H. Hanson Turton, Minister. Witnesses were Joseph Parker & William Mogridge. William signed the register and Elizabeth placed her mark.
Joseph Parker the witness married Jane Pote in Devon. They were on the Blenheim also. So there was a connection but on the Pote side but a connection to Elizabeth on the ship in 1842.

[Candice Arthur]

Hi Sue,

I am also researching Elizabeth Radford, who is my 4th great grandmother.
I keep hitting dead ends with finding anything about Elizabeth before her marrying William Pote.

I'm not sure if you've seen the following newspaper article, so I just thought I'd mention it...
There is mention of Elizabeth in the Taranaki Herald in 1891 as a new settler arriving on the barque Blenheim. In this article, they mention Elizabeth as Mrs Pote instead of Elizabeth Payne, which gives another reason to believe that Elizabeth Payne on board the Blenheim is Elizabeth Radford.

In case you haven't seen this article, here is the link: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TH18910702.2.28#print

[trish1120]

Not that its much help but all the Roberts childrens Bapts are on Familysearch/Org,
Parents
Phylbert Roberts and Ann (nee Cove)

They married 26 July 1818 Exeter

F/S also has a Newspaper notice for the Marriage of Mary Ann Roberts to Octavius Carrington 1845
He  works for the Surveyor General NZ
He Father Philbert is deceased.