Author Topic: Born at sea?  (Read 406 times)

Offline ACBeans

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Born at sea?
« on: Tuesday 27 October 20 20:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi!

Looking for help with my ancestor, Margaret Daniels, supposedly born at sea between Jamaica and Scotland, about 1833.

Margaret's parents and several of her siblings were born in Ireland, but the family settled in Glasgow sometime before 1841. Scottish census (1851 and 81) on Margaret show that she was born at sea so we'd previously assumed she'd been born between Ireland and Scotland. Then I came across a poor law record from 1863 where Margaret applied for relief after her husband died. The record says that Margaret was born "on sea betwixt Jamaica and Scotland." The only other thing I know about her birth is that her 1851 census says "At sea. British Service."

Her father, Richard, was a soldier. I believe he was married in Armagh, Ireland in 1928 to Catherine Moore and they might have lived in Cork in 1834. I've no birth or baptism records for Margaret.

I'm skeptical about the whole thing. In the first place, I struggle with the idea of a woman popping to give birth and still getting on a boat from Ireland to Scotland... but just I can't wrap my head around her traveling all the way from Jamaica to Scotland - apparently a 5-7 week journey - and frankly, either of them surviving... and why would Margaret's mother have been in Jamaica? It doesn't appear these were wealthy people and I assume Richard was a low ranking soldier.

Anyway, Margaret seems to have stuck to the born at sea story her whole life. Does anyone have any thoughts? I'd love to figure out what really happened with her birth.

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Born at sea?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 27 October 20 23:43 GMT (UK) »
Perfectly plausible and very likely a regular occurrence.

My 2xGreat Grandfather was in the Army as a lowly Private, he married in Ireland and their first child was born there.  The next posting was India which is where my Great Grandfather was born.  Hence family mobility was something that happened and it still does today.
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Online wivenhoe

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Re: Born at sea?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 28 October 20 00:22 GMT (UK) »

Have you located a military record for Richard DANIELS, soldier, to see where and when he served overseas.


Offline ACBeans

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Re: Born at sea?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 28 October 20 13:06 GMT (UK) »
wivenhoe - I've found one potential record; Richard Daniels from Tuam but his postings don't show Jamaica and he's at "home" in 1833. So still searching!

Biggles50 - If there's one thing I've struggled with while doing research it's not knowing enough about the history and circumstances (plus people's values and opportunities) at the time so it's sometimes hard to imagine what would have been possible for people back then. So thank you for your insight!

Offline trish1120

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Re: Born at sea?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 28 October 20 14:33 GMT (UK) »
My ancestor was born at sea as the family relocated from Ireland to NZ 1865.
Nothing unusual at that time.


Trish :)
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Offline iluleah

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Re: Born at sea?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 28 October 20 14:38 GMT (UK) »
With regards to the history of Jamaica/Ireland Queens Univerity has produced a history book about that which may give you some incite https://pureadmin.qub.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/133981473/The_Irish_in_Jamaica_during_the_long_eighteenth_century.pdf

The trip between the islands of Ireland and Britain is not classed as 'sea travel' it is just a ferry so there are no records then or now...... until 1922 the island of Ireland was part of the UK
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Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline iluleah

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Re: Born at sea?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 28 October 20 15:02 GMT (UK) »
 Diocesan and Prerogative Marriage License Bonds Ireland
They married in Armagh copy of the register top of the second page https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-994X-5F3M?cc=3460239&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AWG7L-NMPZ
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline Pennines

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Re: Born at sea?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 28 October 20 15:43 GMT (UK) »
My sister in law's family history revealed a 'Born at Sea off Malta' birthplace. This was recorded in Gibraltar (presumably the next port of call).

It was before Civil Registration but was included in 'British Armed Forces and Overseas Births and Baptisms' on the Find My Past site. These records supposedly date from 1761.

There is a birth for a Margaret Daniels on there - but in 1828 in Kinsale -- so not the correct Margaret.

Just for future info - for births on this list you should be able to obtain a copy from the General Register Office - using the reference numbers shown on the Find My Past site. For example - against the 1828 Margaret Daniels birth the Ref is REG1 1828 Page 37 Vol 915 Line 82.

I know this is no good for your Margaret - it's just for information. In addition, I seem to think I have read somewhere that for trips abroad, a certain limited number of soldiers were allowed to take their wives. Whether they were chosen for a specific reason or just by ballot I don't know (nor can I recall where I read about it!!)
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Ireland ------Cleary, Whelan - Nenagh.
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Daly - Westmeath

Lancashire ---- Smith from Alston , Johnson and Fairclough---- Tarleton and loads more from Tarleton and Accrington areas.

Online josey

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Re: Born at sea?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 28 October 20 16:36 GMT (UK) »
I seem to think I have read somewhere that for trips abroad, a certain limited number of soldiers were allowed to take their wives. Whether they were chosen for a specific reason or just by ballot I don't know
Sergeants could take wives by right I believe, but yes there was a ballot for lower ranks as there was a limit to the numbers of wives who could go 'on the strength'. However the army & soldiers benefitted greatly as these wives cooked, cleaned & did laundry for the soldiers to earn extra money.

ADDED: Do you have the baptisms of any of the siblings which may show Richard's regiment? DO you have the census refs for 1841, 1851 & 1861?
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 said to be nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON